Commons:Deletion requests/File:PRCFounding.jpg

I don't know if this image is available in the United States If the copyright of this image still exists in the United States it should be deleted. Q28 (talk) 12:56, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

•  Comment, this photograph was taken by Hou Bo (侯波), she died in 2017. This would mean that it would ascend to the public domain in (2017 + 50 + 1 =) 2068 assuming that the Life + 50 (fifty) years law isn't changed to 70 (seventy) in order to harmonise with other countries. So, for now it's safe to say that it could be undeleted in 2068, but by that time the undeleting user might check Mainland Chinese laws to see if they have changed and adjust the undeletion date accordingly. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (No Fake News 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 13:03, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This photo was indeed taken by Hou Bo, but at the time she was employed as the section chief of the Number 3 Central Film Studio (see her entry in the Biographical Dictionary of Chinese Women, Vol 2, by Lily Xiao and Hong Lee). As a photographer producing works for a news agency, her works during this time are covered by article 18 of the PRC's copyright law, which says that "authors of works for hire have the right of attribution and the remaining copyrights are enjoyed by the legal person or unincorporated organization". Therefore, looking to Article 23: "The works and copyrights (other than attribution rights) of legal persons or unincorporated organizations in works for hire are enjoyed by the legal persons or unincorporated organizations, and the protection period for their publication rights is 50 years, ending on December 31 of the fiftieth year after the creation of the work;" This photo entered public domain in China on January 1, 2000 (edit: this is the latest possible date. I don't know whether the photo was/could have been originally published in the public domain, but since it was an official photo, it could have been. Some digging should be done.).

I think that the nomination was referring to the trickier question of whether the photo is also public domain in the US due to Commons:URAA-restored copyrights. I will note that:

"...files nominated for deletion due to the URAA should be evaluated carefully, as should be their copyright status under U.S. and local laws. A mere allegation that the URAA applies to a file cannot be the sole reason for deletion."

SilverStar54 (talk) 18:00, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the more research I do into this photograph, the less sure I am that it was taken by Hou Bo. I've seen several Chinese sources, such as this one, attribute it to a photographer named Chen Zhengqing who was apparently well known in China but is seemingly unknown in English-language sources. I wonder if there are multiple photos with similar names. This article (which appears to be a repost of an article originally published by Xinhua News) attributes the photograph to Chen in the introduction but later refers to "The Founding Ceremony" (without a reference image) as the most precious photo of Hou Bo's life.

I know very little about Chinese photography at this time, but it seems like mislabeling and misattribution were extremely common and sometimes even delibrate (See the article "The Challenging Archive: Studying Photographers of the Chinese Communist Party" by Gao Chu and Wang Shuo). Can someone find an authoritative source (such as Wu Qun's "History of Photography in China") on the topic? SilverStar54 (talk) 01:08, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Tag with "Not-PD-US-URAA|China". First, this photograph was a work for hire almost certainly published by a legal (not natural) person in 1949.^[a] Second, the PRC did not have a copyright law from 1949-1990, meaning this photo (and any other photos from the time) could not have been published under any sort of free license because none existed.^[b] Third, in 1990 China did adopt a copyright law. Under that law, all works owned by legal persons were protected 50 years from publication, applied retroactively. That means that this photograph became public domain in China on January 1st, 2000. However, because the URAA went into effect for China in 1996, this image is subject to Commons:URAA-restored copyrights, and is not free in the United States. Because the image was uploaded before 2012, it should be tagged in accordance with Wikimedia policy. Moreover, following the example of the other images in en:Category:PD-China images with URAA-restored copyright, I think there is a strong rationale for Non-free fair use under Wikipedia:Non-free content#Images Section 8, "Iconic or historical images that are themselves the subject of sourced commentary". Many articles in English and Chinese have discussed the significance of this image as a symbol of the moment that the People's Republic was founded. I'm not sure what do to do with this image if that applies (are those images even on Wikimedia Commons, or only the English Wikipedia?). SilverStar54 (talk) 20:52, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. .     Jim . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 16:26, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]