December 30

I read an interesting article on Encyclopedia Dramatica that claims the name of certain things on wikipedia have been given to mock editors' supposed submission as slaves, drawing on their childish oblivion. Ex: Twinkle, Huggle, Sandbox. Why exactly are these childish terms used to describe these things on wikipedia? --William S. Saturn (talk) 00:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, sandbox can mean, among other things, a place drafts can be made in wet sand and easily erased,, so it seems appropriate enough. Twinkle was developed and (I presume) christened by AzaToth, and Huggle by Gurch; both are still active editors so you could always ask them where they got the names from. I'd do it myself but I'm manacled to this oar. Karenjc 00:54, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The term 'Sandbox' has long been used in computer systems to denote a parallel but non-operational duplication of some or all functions and data, to be used for practising, that will not affect the main system. One example is found within the proprietory commercial database system Maximo. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 14:50, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Encyclopedia Dramatica is not a source of real information—it is intentionally false in order to be funny. (Sometimes it manages to actually be funny. Often it does not. Such is life.) Don't believe anything you read on it, as a rule. Anyway, "sandbox" was a pretty standard term long before Wikipedia for untested things (see Sandbox (software development)). --Mr.98 (talk) 01:12, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, Encyclopedia Dramatica is like The Onion except not as funny, and a less reliable source for factual information. --Jayron32 01:14, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Sandbox is so established as a term in computing that, given the local word for the child's toy is different here, it took me many years to realise that it was referencing that. Although the link to the kind you write on seems stronger. Doesn't seem like any infantalisation to me. 86.176.48.114 (talk) 19:41, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why does my kitchen sink, upon being backed up, sometimes cough stuff up into my bathtub (located in the bathroom, of course), but my toilet never does that? I mean, certainly, toilet refuse ending up in my bathtub would be much less desirable, but why doesn't the plumbing allow for whatever impermissibility of transfer that exists between my toilet and tub similarly exist between my kitchen sink and my tub? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 05:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You might learn something by examining your plumbing. My guess is that your toilet has a closer connection to the sewer than your bathtub. I agree that if discarded foodstuffs barf up into your bathtub it's better if they haven't been digested already. PhGustaf (talk) 05:50, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See this diagram and the tables on that page. Note that in the example figure, the toilet (W.C.) has a separate, large-diameter (three-inch) pipe connecting it to the waste 'stack' (major vertical drainage pipe, three- or four-inch diameter). In comparison, one can get away with narrower pipe (two- or even one-and-a-half-inch) for sinks and tubs, and these other fixtures can often share pipe connections to the stack. If the sink drain is higher in elevation than the tub drain, and if a blockage occurs in one of these shared drain pipes, then wastewater can flow down the sink drain and come back up in your tub. The narrower pipe also makes such blockages more likely.

The exact configuration of your plumbing will of course vary depending on local rules, date of construction, and contractor compliance with building codes, but that gives a rough idea of the principles at work. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:33, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Similar to the diagram above, but the sink and tub drains are possibly a joint drain that is higher in elevation than the toilet drain (in the major drainage). I guess you have possibly a drain clog above the toilet drain.Nevill Fernando (talk) 18:51, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 05:50, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In Britain you have seperate pipes for waste water and sewage, which avoids sewage coming up the plughole if the sewer pipe is blocked, which I see can happen in the American system, particularly with its narrow pipes. 92.24.83.55 (talk) 15:17, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have a Melvin Vaniman panaromic photo of somewhere in San Francisco, the scene is of a small town in a hot springs area, I think the date on the photo is 1902 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.186.116.157 (talk) 07:32, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And what might your question be? If you want us to identify the town, you're going to have to give us more information, or provide a link to the photo. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 07:45, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are no hot springs in San Francisco itself. The best-known and probably the oldest hot-springs resort nearby is Calistoga, California. Marco polo (talk) 14:28, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the OP could add it to Wikimedia Commons. Sounds like an interesting photo. Some panoramic photos were taken by special wide format view cameras. Later ones had a rotating camera, so it was possible for a speedy individual to appear at both ends of a line of people. Edison (talk) 02:53, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

i've noticed that most basketball players are tall, way tall..... so, i just wondered if by jumping i can increase my height. can i?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.133.198 (talk) 13:58, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, no. Our article on human height#Determinants of growth and height discusses the factors which will govern your height. Height can also be increased (in many cases) through growth hormone treatment or (more drastically) limb-lengthening surgery. There's a saying among basketball recruiters: "You can't teach tall." TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:13, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(Edit Conflict) You seem to be making the common mistake of confusing Cause and Effect (about which see our article Causality). Basketball players do not become markedly taller because they jump a lot, they become basketball players mostly because they are already tall (compared to their age cohort) and can jump well. The same selection effect occurs in some other sports, some of which are mentioned in the next link.

That said, a combination of exercise, good diet and good healthcare does positively influence height, as mentioned in our article Human height (see Section 2 - Determinants of growth and height). Since basketball players are athletes who by definition exercise and almost certainly have a healthy diet and (if professional) good healthcare, they must benefit from these factors, but no more than any other non-jumping athletes, or non-athletes who follow a similar Lifestyle.

In summary, jumping may well form part of a more general Physical exercise regime, which if followed and supported with a good diet (and adequate healthcare) may well help someone who is still growing (i.e. a child or adolescent) to grow somewhat taller (maybe by a couple of inches or so?) than they would otherwise have done so, and may add a much smaller amount to an already fully grown person, but solely jumping, on its own, would not have much effect. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 14:42, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The trouble is, to put it in layman's language, that your height increases when you jump. But decreases when you land. Tough!90.4.116.70 (talk) 16:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As commented to an earlier question, a way to be taller is always try to be seen emerging from low doorways. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's worth noting that while you're right that most basketball players are tall, not all of them are. Skill is an important factor. If you're of average, or just above average, height and are very skillful, you'll still be an asset to a team. Grutness...wha? 23:29, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Muggsy Bogues. --Trovatore (talk) 03:23, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Though not in that league - in either sense - Paul Henare is under 6 foot as well. Grutness...wha? 23:49, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have been searching to buy all the series of the parkers starring -Monique. Can you help me to find out how I can. My email is <redacted> Thank You —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.251.23.11 (talk) 16:54, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not include contact details in your questions. We are unable to provide answers by any off-wiki medium and this page is highly visible across the internet. The details have been removed, but if you want them to be permanently removed from the page history, please email oversight-llists.wikimedia.org. --ColinFine (talk) 18:58, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What is the highest number of pitches thrown in one single at bat to one player? Googlemeister (talk) 17:06, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Baseball historian Bill James wrote about an outfielder named Roy Thomas who supposedly got a full count then proceeded to foul off 22 pitches while playing for the Phillies back in the 1900s. Pitch-by-pitch recordkeeping only began in the 1980s, so Thomas' record is considered to be unofficial. More recently, Alex Cora fouled off 14 pitches before homering. Wikipedia's article claims this is the third-longest at-bat since the recordkeeping started, but the source that is provided does not mention this fact at all. Xenon54 / talk / 17:39, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, a Google search yields many results like: [1], [2], [3], and [4]. All of which seem to be just about as reliable as the next. Dismas|^(talk) 17:51, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, this phenomenon has never been kept as an "official" record, and prior to keeping track of individual pitches, any supposed records would necessarily be anecdotal. Luke Appling was famous for fouling off pitches until he got one he liked. In Strikeout#History it mentions that a foul bunt on the third strike was not considered to be a strike until 1894. Without checking to be sure, I would speculate that was a result of the old Baltimore Orioles exploiting loopholes in the rules in order to gain an advantage. They were the kings of the "inside game", what we now call "small ball". Also, the pitching distance had been moved back 5 feet in 1893, which probably gave batters more time to control a bunt attempt, and potentially they could hit foul bunts all afternoon. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:14, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

i have a question, what did that child say to President Obama? --Jaoa9103 (talk) 17:08, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are going to have to supply more information on what child you are talking about for us to give you a reasonable answer. Googlemeister (talk) 17:35, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That boy while Obama was getting off stage the boy "said Why do people hate u mr president!@? Its on news articles... --Jaoa9103 (talk) 17:42, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Could you point us to at least one of those articles? I've tried various combinations of "Obama boy stage" and various other words but don't see anything about any boy talking to Obama. Was this at some event which would help with the search? Dismas|^(talk) 17:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That could have been said about any President, including Washington. Obama's answer, whatever it was, would be more interesting than the question. It likely would have been along the lines of, "Son, it comes with the territory." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:16, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is the boy's question and Obama's answer. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 19:06, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He gave the kid plenty to think about. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:54, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Reluctant though I am to cite Vanity Fair, the President said "That’s what I'm talking about. Terrence, I appreciate that." [5]. Tevildo (talk) 19:07, 30 December 2009 (UTC) . . . . and a whole lot more!! Richard Avery (talk) 22:52, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The OP asked what the boy said, not what Obama replied. The sound is weak but I think I hear "Why do people hate you (when) they're supposed to love you?". Cuddlyable3 (talk) 01:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

True - I would transcribe it as "I have to say - why do people hate you, and why - do you think they're supposed to love you - and - God is love - and..." Tevildo (talk) 02:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why does this kid think we need to love our nation's leaders? I bet most politicians would settle for 50% +1 of the people tolerating them. Googlemeister (talk) 14:31, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's part of the point Obama was making to the kid. One way to look at it, though, is that we should love our leaders, but it should be "tough love". A couple of comments from Harry Truman come to mind. One is the well-known, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." Obama made it clear to the kid that he can stand the heat - and told the kid he thought he could stand the heat too. The other thing Truman said was, "With criticism comes progress." That one can be harder to swallow. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have Sony DVD+R's am I able to use them for PLAYABLE Wii Backups or do I have to uses DVD-R's? --Melab±1 ☎ 19:18, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Neither. Wii software is copy protected. Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wii games aren't stored on regular DVDs anyway. See Nintendo_optical_disc. J.delanoy^gabs_adds 22:16, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This may tread too close to "legal advice", so I won't cry in my soup if it gets removed. I've been subpoena'd as a witness in an insurance case. Arson of an empty dwelling, step out of the house at 4AM to see a 40-foot wall of flames right across the road, attended the scene, checked it out the next day, just normal suburban stuff. :) The case is about whether the dwelling was occupied and my testimony will be "no indication at all that it was". My problem is that saying this will take a day out of my life and I get the princely sum of $20 for taking a day off work. The insurance investigator mentioned in passing during our initial interview "oh, you can get a lot more than that if you do it right".

I'm not really looking for opinions, I'm just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience (and has email enabled) or if anyone can point to decent web resources that discuss possible strategies to get more than the bare minimum compensation for losing a day's work. I'm aware that different jurisdictions may have different ways, Canada is best, or any common-law country too. Thanks! Franamax (talk) 21:52, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can you not ask him? Kittybrewster ☎ 22:04, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Be glad you're getting $20. I was recently a witness in a wrongful dismissal case (Ontario, Canada) and got some measly sum which was meant to cover transport to the courthouse. I believe the cheque was for less than $2 (yeah, two dollars), essentially enough to cover bus fare in the city. More helpfully, I'd follow Kittybrewster's suggestion. Matt Deres (talk) 22:53, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

At the organisation I used to work for in the UK, I had to account for my time on a billing system. As well as all the normal project-related numbers, there were special numbers to be used for things like vacation time, sickness and jury service. When I took a couple of days off as a witness in a court case, I recorded that time as "Jury service" and got a full day's pay from my employer. I was also able to claim expenses from the Crown Prosecution Service (though they were not happy that I chose to drive the 250 km to the court and back, rather than take the very inconvenient public transport). As it happens, my testimony was not required after all - the accused eventually changed his plea to guilty, and us witnesses spent two days hanging around the court drinking coffee. So, maybe my employer was generous, but it is probably worth asking your employers' admin/HR people what provision they make for jury service and whether your court appearence can be counted as that. Astronaut (talk) 00:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Do your duty, and be glad you live somewhere with a decent court system. Some day you might need someone to turn up and give evidence for you. DuncanHill (talk) 00:12, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dude, he's not trying to get out of doing his duty, he's just trying not to get completely shafted for a day's wages (or vacation). The bailiffs, clerks, lawyers, and judge all get paid to be there, why force him to take a loss for something he didn't do? Franamax, a thought occurs to me that if your testimony is really that straightforward, perhaps the court would allow you just to file an affidavit? No harm in asking, anyway. Matt Deres (talk) 00:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) Only you (the OP) can know whether this is just a case of wishing for more money or if the "day out of your life" will cause you material loss that is significantly more than $20. If you have a convincing argument for the latter, propose to the insurance company that instead of attending court you wish to provide a signed affadavit. Whether that will be acceptable will depend on factors that we cannot know, such as whether it is important to the case (whose?) that you be available in court for cross examination, or whether the insurance company see a benefit in knowing in advance exactly what your statement will be. However I advise not negotiating a higher fee with the investigator because in a contested case doubt will be cast on the probity of a witness who seems to be attending for personal gain. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 01:07, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's hard to imagine any job (much less a specialized one) that didn't have at least $20 in opportunity costs for a lost day of work. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:43, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

At least some Australian courts will re-imburse lost income. Here's the claim form for the Magistrates' Court of Tasmania, and here's the relevent page from the Federal Court of Australia's web site. Mitch Ames (talk) 02:41, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried all the search engines that I know. I'm looking for a place where I can fully read all of this doujinshi, but I can only find like five pages of it total. Here's the link to the title and author of the thing, but this is all I got. I actually have no idea whether or not Wikipedia is a good place to ask this, or if this is even in the appropriate section, but I've hit a dead end. Can anyone help? <(^_^)> Pokegeek42 (talk) 23:03, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The link you gave just goes to a main page, not a specific page on anything. I'm an "assume good faith" kind of guy, but I have to wonder why you wanted us to go to the site rather than just giving us the author and title you were looking for up front. In any case, unless the piece has been released to the public domain, we're not going to be able to help you. Have you tried Amazon or other online bookseller? Matt Deres (talk) 23:21, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In fairness to the OP, he did supply the URL for the title page of the publication he's talking about. The website redirects to a licence agreement interstitial webpage before taking you to the address he provided. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:55, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Thank you, then. <(^_^)>Pokegeek42 (talk) 23:58, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify, the title is "Cherry", the author is Kobayashi Yugo, and the publication date is 2008-08-15. I'm afraid I don't know how one would go about purchasing a copy, though. Tevildo (talk) 00:50, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You may find help at www.manganews.net that has a forum and a search engine (supposed to cover 49 publishers). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 01:27, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the very page you linked, Pokegeek, it has no publisher and is found in no collections. It looks like maybe it's a fanwork distributed at a convention. As such, your options are:

1) Find it for sale somewhere like ebay, assuming one of the few people who has a copy wants to sell it and chooses to do so somewhere you can see and afford it.

2) Find it uploaded somewhere: more likely to be available to torrent than hosted somewhere. This would most likely be illegal, and you would have to take all the usual risks you take with torrenting (potential viruses, malware, etc).

3) Join an online community which is likely to have people who own a copy. (Is there a community associated with the site where you read 5 pages?) Ask around to find someone who does, then see if they will lend or sell you theirs. You can probably increase your chances if you also own something they would want to borrow or buy, but in any case this is probably your best bet.

You'll probably want to find an online community to discuss this stuff with anyway. I'm sure you don't need to be told about web safety, but I'd be remiss not to give the compulsory recap: don't give out your real name, address, phone number, city, school, etc. Don't upload or link to photos of yourself or your friends. Don't meet up with people you've 'met' online until you're a bit older, and even then meet up in a crowded place with lots of witnesses.

Probably best not to tell people how old you are either, although they'll be able to approximate it if they're paying attention. Depending on the fandom, you might even want to keep your gender under wraps until you've snooped around the community a little. Have fun! The internet is one of the best things to happen to fandom. 86.176.48.114 (talk) 01:28, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm guessing that you can get a copy on this site for 600 yen, but you'd need to know some Japanese to navigate the site. Marco polo (talk) 01:49, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you could go to sites like onemanga or manganovel. They have a big collection of stuff there... 117.194.225.138 (talk) 06:35, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. That helps a lot. Thanks, guys. <(^_^)>Pokegeek42 (talk) 15:29, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mangafox.com is another site you might like. 195.35.160.133 (talk) 12:19, 5 January 2010 (UTC) Martin.[reply]

December 31

Are there any studies out there that show how much time the average person spends each week at the supermarket? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.236.111 (talk) 01:22, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It would certainly be skewed by all the people who do not visit the supermarket -- perhaps averaging the time supermarket-goers spend there would be more useful. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 05:41, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, i work as a manager in a supermarket and there are many studies which are commercially sensitive, as to how long people spend in supermarkets. The layouts of supermarkets are specifically designed on this basis that they encourage purchasing. For instance: wide aisles encourage consumers to walk through more slowly. Narrow aisles attracting lower margins encourage a lower foot flow. As a general rule fruit and vegetables are located close to the main entrance to suggest to the consumer that products are fresh and at their prime condition. There is no set average as to how long a consumer will shop, as different shoppers have different needs. A customer popping in for a quick shop on the way home from work is guided to those products which will best suit him or her, but in a way in which add-on purchases are encouraged.

According to this site it's 2.5 hours a week.

What are some colours commonly associated with New Year's day? Intelligentsium 02:22, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

New years, in my culture at least, doesn't have any colour associated with it. It's often celebrated with fireworks and spectacular displays, so if you're trying to think of a colour scheme, sparkles, multi-colours or shiny things might be a theme you could work off. In terms of other cultures, for Chinese New Year, red is a common colour because of its association with good fortune. Steewi (talk) 03:34, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Many Christian churches have Liturgical colours; in many western-rite churches (Including Roman Catholic and many Protestant churches), January 1st falls during Christmastide (the time period between Christmas Day and the Epiphany, aka the 12 days of Christmas. The traditional liturgical color for this time period is White. --Jayron32 04:31, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would say silver is common among New Years decorations at the party store but I don't know of any deep association of colors like for Christmas and Easter. 75.41.110.200 (talk) 16:48, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Midnight blue seems to be common. Woogee (talk) 21:21, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would say tartan because of all the Scottish connections with the celebration....hotclaws 23:24, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tartans come in many colours. Red, green, blue and black would be the most predominant ones. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:26, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that, in the popular conception, the exact position of the minute hand on an analog clock with a second hand is independent of the number of seconds past the last full minute. This despite that actual analog clocks (rather than animated images of such clocks) typically do not behave in such a fashion.

See here: [[6]]

Also, in the movie "Law Abiding Citizen", when a "real" clock was counting the seconds to 6:00, the minute and second hands behaved in precisely this manner.

Why is this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.37.236.124 (talk) 04:34, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It depends entirely on the construction of the clock. Some clocks "click over" a full minute only after the second hand passes the twelve, and some move the minute hand gradually in 1 second intervals between each minute, much like the relationship between the minute and the hour hand. It really just depends on which kind of clock you have. --Jayron32 04:38, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Really? And what kind of clocks would those be? I have Asperger's syndrome; I pay attention to these things, and I'd think I would have noticed by now. Your run of the mill cheapo wall clock or alarm clock certainly would not do something so fancy as making the hands behave differently for one specific second out of the minute. I have owned a number of watches with hour, minute, and second hands, and none of them seemed to treat the last second of the minute as "special" in this manner, either. (I am ignoring the "extra" dials on a watch with more than basic timekeeping functions.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.37.236.124 (talk) 04:52, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You'll often see it in public clocks (at railway stations etc) where all three hands are controlled by a central source. Tevildo (talk) 04:58, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• In certain countries, that is. The railway stations where I remember encountering this type of clock are in Switzerland and at least one of Germany and/or Austria. Specifically, the second hand sweeps the complete circle in 58 seconds, not 60; then it stops for 2 seconds and in the middle of those 2 seconds the minute hand jumps forward. Being used to the type of clock where the minute hand advances continuously, or to digital clocks, I always find it a bit misleading.
• I will also note that in many clocks that have a second hand and a continuously advancing minute hand, the two hands are not really coupled. It's entirely possible for the minute have to be 1/3 of the way, or other random amount, from 20 to 21 past the hour while the second hand is pointing straight up. In other words, the second hand is provided only in case you want to time something in seconds, and not for showing the complete time accurate to the second. My impression is that this is more common than clocks where the hands actually are coupled. --Anonymous, 06:28:10 UTC, December 31, 2009.

I tried to find a real one on youtube but was unsuccessful. I know I've seen it before, for sure in Back to the Future, but that might have been contrived. (You can see it at about the 15 second mark of this trailer:[7]) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:18, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there are clocks whose minute hands jump once a minute. But unless they have second hands as well, they are irrelevant to the point I am trying to make. BTW, I went to one school which had a master clock system, with no second hands on the slave clocks, in which the slave hands would jump once a minute (when the system was working); and another school which also had a master clock system, but with second hands on the slave clocks, and in which the slave hands (all three of them) would move continuously except from time to time during a synching operation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.37.236.124 (talk) 05:29, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Doing some quick research, I found that the Omega X-33 watch apparently has a second hand that "ticks" every second and a minute hand that "ticks" every 30 seconds. Not exactly what you are looking for, but it isn't a "continuous motion" minute hand. You're looking for a similar set up, but where the minute hand "ticks" every 60 seconds. If you can make a watch do it twice a minute, I suppose you could make it work once a minute. --Jayron32 05:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's a matter of purpose as much as it's a matter of function. In order to get the hour hand from number 3 to number 4, for instance, the small hand could either make a jump at once or move gradually over the course of an hour -- the latter scheme is probably easier to work into the gears, seeing how jumping an entire number at once would require a sweep of 30º of the face at one time. To make a minute hand jump 6º is much more easily worked into the gears. DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 05:48, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My kitchen clock cost me, I think, $7.95 at Fry's a couple years ago. It syncs itself to WWVB every day or two, so it's within an RCH of the correct time always. The minute hand jerks every fifteen seconds. If I weren't retired, I'd actually care about time intervals shorter than a morning. PhGustaf (talk) 05:57, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tommy Chong, from an old Cheech and Chong bit: "I'm not into time, Man." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, the minute hand on my Casio watch moves forward every 20 seconds, so it does vary considerably from one manufacturer to another.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:50, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is actually a specific term for the differences in how the hands tick off time, whether it is done continuously or in discrete units. We even have some kind of mention of it in an article, I recall. But I can't remember the term itself! Someone at a good watch store would probably know. It was invented in the 19th century. It is not as easy as continuous movement but was considered more fashionable. I was once asked to look it up, and I did, but that was probably a year ago. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would think there is. My first stop was at the clock article, but it didn't seem to lead to an answer. I went looking for Big Ben and other clocks in google, but it seemed like all the clips started just as the clock was starting to chime noon or whatever, so it wasn't possible to tell. However, maybe someone here who lives in London could say with some certainty whether the minute hand "sweeps" or "jumps". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In answer to the original question, I agree that there are two factors in the faulty perception of real analogue clocks. The first is simply a lack of observation by those at the opposite end of the Asperger's spectrum. The second is the influence of digital-drive clocks over the last forty years (including the master-clock system which was the earliest digital drive with analogue-type display). Strictly-speaking, I suppose that all clocks have a digital drive, though those sychronised to 50 or 60 Hz appear to have smooth movement. I remember watching (more than 50 years ago) the movement of the minute-hand of a grandfather clock where the tiny jumps each second were visible. The Big Ben clock is driven by a pendulum and escapement, so the tiny jumps every 2 seconds will be visible at close quarters, but from a distance it appears smooth. Perhaps film clocks deviate from reality just for dramatic effect. Dbfirs 14:12, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My first watch, a cheap timex with the red and blue semi-circles and 5-minute markings, had a second hand and a minute hand that moved on once a minute. I know because I used to watch it really closely, so I could tell people the exact time. I used to wait until it had just ticked over, and the second hand was at the top, then match it to Big Ben at the beginning of the news. So, watches certainly exist that behave this way. It is true that most clocks I've watched do not. 86.176.48.114 (talk) 15:16, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of the clocks I've noticed (here in Australia), the second hand moves 1/60th of the distance between each 'minute mark' every second... interesting stuff. — Deon^talk 15:41, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Most everything that happens in Australia happens wrong. It's about Coriolis force working backward. PhGustaf (talk) 15:49, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's negated if the clock is lined up with the south pole. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How old was the Timex watch? I have never seen a clockwork watch behave like that, but my first watch was a long time ago! On all the clockwork clocks and watches that I have ever taken apart, the minute hand is directly geared to the second hand (if it exists) and to the escapement, so that it moves a tiny amount every "tick" (varying from a fraction of a second to two seconds in the case of the Big Ben Clock). Digital mechanisms (with analogue displays) behave in various ways depending on the design. Some have cogs and behave exactly like a clockwork mechanism, others move pointers by a pulse which can be at any chosen interval. ... and you are looking at the face of Australian clocks from underneath! Dbfirs 17:58, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It would have been bought about 1992 and was battery-powered, rather than wind-up. That battery lasted about 8 years. I could take the glass screen off using a suction cup and poke the little hands. It had a lively tick that I used to listen to at night, trying to train myself to count seconds. Ah, I loved that watch :) 86.176.48.114 (talk) 01:45, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I grumble at the current notion of an "analog" timepiece. Every clock since the water clock has just accumulated ticks of one sort or another (the conceptual distance between escapement ticks, tuning fork ticks, and crystal oscillator ticks being nil) and shown the count somehow. I find pointers easier to read than digits, but that's just me. PhGustaf (talk) 18:52, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I gather that what you're saying is that every clock is "digital" in the sense that it counts something. And about digital clocks, i.e. with the numbers, it has been argued that recognition of what time it is takes longer, because you have to process it. Because typically you don't really want to know that it's 10:27 and 39 seconds. You want to know if your late for that 10:30 meeting - and a traditional analog clock will tell you "faster" than a digital clock will. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a reference for that, Bugs? I've been making the same claim for years, but while I've found a few blogs and other unreliable sources that echo it, the only formal paper I saw on a quick google was this, which at first sight seems to contradict this. I don't think it does so, because I don't think they actually tested for the criterion that you (and I) think is most important - a sort of fuzzy comparison, but it doesn't support our case either. Some hard evidence would be very welcome (and could go in our sadly lacking digital clock article). --ColinFine (talk) 22:32, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's something I read years ago. It could be outdated, because digital clocks are so pervasive nowadays; especially the younger generations, who would be used to it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:56, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think that nearly everyone agrees that analogue displays are quicker to read. I haven't found any academic research but, for example, the maufacturers, Stack claim: Stack believe that an analogue display is still superior in imparting some data quickly and accurately. The human brain can process information from analog displays far quicker than digital displays. An analogue display can tell you at a glance WHERE a value is, a digital display can only tell you WHAT the value is. This is why they are still used in cars and aircraft, even though the underlying information feed is more often than not digital.
There is an interesting discussion (with a pointer to references) at The Interactive Design Association and a Google Books reference in Basic Ship Theory Dbfirs 09:18, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

To answer Mr.98's question, the two types of mechanisms are the continuous and step (or stepwise) movements. There is a wikianswers article titled "How_many_times_do_the_hands_of_a_clock_overlap_in_a_day" mentioning those terms. My radio-controlled analog display watch has a minute hand that steps once every minute. The minute hand is sync'ed with the digital display of seconds. The only true "step" analog clock I have is my grandfather clock having a minute hand that moves a minute amount every tick. I guess that would make it 60 minutes per minute. Also, I agree that analog clocks present the "picture" of time and are easier to process. Digital timepieces are fine for coffee pots and microwaves, but they have no character, no beauty. Who could get excited about digital display tower clock? JackOL31 (talk) 02:40, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I tried to say above, all normal clockwork clocks and watches have analogue display with minute hands that move a tiny amount every fraction of a second, depending on tick speed (two seconds for the clock which contains Big Ben). It's just that on a small clock, the jump is too small to be noticed. Electronic clock drives vary according to the step circuitry. "Mains" synchronous clocks are possibly the only type that have a continuous drive with smooth movement (the 50 or 60 hertz is used only for synchronisation of the miniature motor, not for pulsing). I agree fully about the aesthetics! Dbfirs 12:04, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Right, I understood that when you first mentioned it. However, there are two types of clock movements. They are step and continuous. Whether continuous encompasses true continuous and/or apparent continuous, I can't say. Here are some examples I found out on the web from various sites: "The conventional electronic timepieces have heretofore been designed to operate either in a stepwise hand-carrying manner or in a continuous hand-carrying manner", "Step Motion #M2: The most common movement for schools and hobbyists to produce clocks", and "Continuous Sweep #M6: This quality movement will make no ticking noise and the second hand sweeps around with no jumping". Maybe I'm missing something? JackOL31 (talk) 00:50, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think we are at cross-purposes here. I was talking about traditional clockwork drives where the escapement mechanism means that there are steps of between a fraction of a second and two seconds. The two types of step motion that you mention are for electronic drives which, although digital, have a frequency of (typically) 32,768 Hz. These fast pulses are then used to jump the hands forward at various rates, and a fast rate looks continuous, though it is really tiny jumps. As far as I know, only "mains" clocks (now almost obsolete?) have a truly continuous drive. It would be possible, but unnecessarily complex and expensive, to use the electronic oscillations to regulate a synchronised motor to give a truly continuous movement in electronic clocks and watches, but this would increase the cost and bulk, and would reduce the accuracy. Electronic step circuitry can be designed to give any size of jump (usually 32,768 divided by a power of 2), either to emphasize the digital nature of the device or to give an excellent impression of perfectly smooth motion, or any option in between, according to user preference. Dbfirs 08:21, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Right, I don't think I was ever in disagreement with your statements, so I was confused by the issue. A question was asked regarding the name of the other movement, which I answered as "step". Then I mentioned that the only true step analog clock I have (mechanical, not electric/electronic(battery) or as you say "traditional clockworks") was my grandfather clock. Since then I remembered I have a wind-up clock bought in a moment of nostalgia. I later determined that nostalgia lasts about 10 days! JackOL31 (talk) 02:08, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ahhh, I see. You thought I was implying there was a mechanical continuous movement. Yes, I meant to say "mechanical" instead of "step" for the grandfather clock. JackOL31 (talk) 02:25, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am a big fan of michael jackson since childhood, was discussing with my friends about all the allgations that were charged on him regarding child abuse, just wanted know to that did he ever admit that charge if yes, then in which interview or where would i find that if its written somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.228.59.66 (talk) 09:55, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He never admitted to child molestation, and I have gotten to be of the opinion that those charges were false - cooked up by parents who wanted to make money off Michael (some of whom did), who was certainly an eccentric character but that's not unusual among artists. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:04, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So right....... i was giving the same opinion to my frens, i believe the same thing.. thank u so much... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.228.59.66 (talk) 10:21, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I should point out that he did admit to sleeping with kids. But not to touching them inappropriately. I think there was an interview he did with a British TV guy in which he talked about that. That interview was attempted to be used as evidence when he was brought to trial. But it didn't fly. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→

10:26, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

If u can give any idea which year that interview was done with him, that would be helpful

The journalist was Martin Bashir, and the interviews took place in 2002-03. See Living with Michael Jackson. Tevildo (talk) 10:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ya beat me to it. It's mentioned in the Bashir article and also in the Jackson article, in connection with the most recent trial. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps this goes without saying, but since Baseball Bugs gave the only answer, I'll point out to the OP that very few people actually know what happened between Jackson and those kids. BB's "answer" is pure speculation, and shouldn't be taken seriously. The Wikipedia reference desk is not the place for people's personal opinions. Staecker (talk) 14:48, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Let's put it another way: There is NO EVIDENCE that Michael Jackson ever molested anyone. Supposition that he did is equally speculative - and the famous trial resulted in a "not guilty". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:53, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. There's evidence that he acted in a way that most people consider creepy and inappropriate with other people's children, without apparently realising how this behaviour was viewed. We have no evidence either way as to whether he molested anyone. On the one hand, he did pay parents off who took him to trial, but that could as easily be because of the damage to his image. On the other hand, we all saw how sure people were that he was lying about the skin disease, whereas the coroner tells us that it was all true. The court of public opinion is cruel and often inaccurate. The overall picture from things like the Bashir interview is of a man I wouldn't trust alone with children, but not because I think he'd molest them or do anything on purpose. 86.176.48.114 (talk) 15:04, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Paying off parents can also be a lot cheaper than an actual court case. I am sure his lawyer's would have taken in a lot more money than he paid off the parents with. --98.217.71.237 (talk) 19:27, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• I have heard it said that the mafia asked him for money failing which they would ruin him by falsely accusing him of child molestation. He didn't respond so they carried through their plot. There is a blind musician whom they also threatened (don't know what with) as a result of which he has written no more music. Kittybrewster ☎ 17:39, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't post baseless rumor or speculation on the Reference Desk. Livewireo (talk) 16:31, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen a picture of a big castle on the coast or an island that I can't find anymore. I think the island is really rocky and there are huge boulders in the ocean with waves crashing around and a huge castle on top of the cliff/island. I thought this was a pretty famous place, but I can't seem to find it in my searches now. It's not Mont Saint-Michel, though it looks kind of like that place. Any ideas? Tex (talk) 16:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you had a photo or perhaps painting, that might aid us in determining the specific castle. I have found a few that might meet your criteria, but two of the possibilities I found are currently in ruins. Googlemeister (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) There's St Michael's Mount and Lindisfarne Castle for starters, although neither castle is huge. Mikenorton (talk) 16:34, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(to GM) Yeah, unfortunately I don't have any idea how to find the picture again without knowing the name of the castle so I can't show it to you! (to Mike) I don't think either of those two are what I'm looking for. It might be Mont Saint-Michel, but my memory has waves crashing around it and this looks like very shallow water with no waves. I think the island and rocks were blackish if that helps anyone. Thanks again. Tex (talk) 16:38, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Was it a photo then? And did the castle seem in good condition? Googlemeister (talk) 16:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Almourol Castle perhaps? Googlemeister (talk) 16:46, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I saw a photo of this place and it appeared to be in very good condition. At least it wasn't in ruins or anything. The Almourol Castle isn't it, either. I did a google image search and did not see what I'm looking for after looking through hundreds of castles, so I may have just imagined it. Thanks for trying. Tex (talk) 16:49, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Could it be Bamburgh Castle? Marco polo (talk) 18:24, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Marco, nice try, but that's not it either. Any other ideas? Tex (talk) 19:43, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

At high tide in stormy weather Mont Saint-Michel is surrounded by waves. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 01:01, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

IIRC the castle from the Tintin comic The Black Island is a drawing of a real castle. Perhaps it could be that one? --Saddhiyama (talk) 01:11, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

How about this castle - Eilean Donan Castle in Scotland? Astronaut (talk) 02:28, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

... or Dunnottar Castle, also in Scotland. Astronaut (talk) 02:46, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Castle Stalker, AKA the Castle Aargh? Acroterion _(talk) 04:24, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My first association was also the Tintin cover suggested by Saddhiyama . The French article on L'Île Noire mentions Phare de l'île Noire (facing the Château du Taureau) as well as the Île d'Or, the Vieux-château de l'Île d'Yeu, and the Lochranza Castle as possible sources of Hergé's inspiration. Another one I thought of is Mont Orgueil (See here for a more dramatic illustration). ---Sluzzelin talk 10:34, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dunvegan Castle perhaps? Tantallon Castle described in the book Guide To Castles In Britain as "one of the most famous and romantic of Scottish castles". There is also a listing on the internet somewhere of every castle in Britain. Despite Hamlet, I'm not sure if they also have castles in Scandinavia. There are some in other countries, including the Crusader castles. Can you describe what the windows look like - where they normal-sized windows or little slits? Was the top crenelated? Was there anything between the castle and the sea - rock or grass? Did the castle have towers - how many? What sort of shape was it? Round towers or square towers? How big was the castle? Could the picture have been a photo-montage or a fantasy image of some kind? Was the castle in good enough condition for people to be living in it? The problem is that the same castle will look very different according to the direction it is photographed in, including looking complete from some directions and ruined from others, being above a cliff or on dry land. The Wikipedia photos of castles tend to be taken from the car-park rather than from a boat at sea looking onshore. One of the photos of Tantallon Castle in the distance in the Wikipedia article looks like what you have described. 78.146.210.81 (talk) 12:22, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

These Wikipedia articles support the notion that Scandinavians have castles: Castles in Norway, List of castles in Sweden, List of castles and palaces in Denmark, List of castles in Finland. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:22, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, of course there are Scandinavian castles. Shakespeare (whoever he was) set Hamlet in Elsinore. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:01, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Boy, you guys are good. Unfortunately none of those are the one I'm looking for! Mr. 78.146, I wish I could remember more details, but it seems to me the castle was right at the edge with only rocks between it and the ocean. I don't remember how many towers or what the windows look like. I'm beginning to think I just saw a rather dramatic picture of Mont Saint-Michel, but I can't seem to find the picture I'm remembering. I'm 99% sure it was a real castle, not a fantasy pic or anything. Oh well, you guys have shown me a lot of interesting castles, so I guess this little excersize was worth something! Thanks! Tex (talk) 02:05, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tintagel..??..hotclaws 21:11, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You remind me of this stunning painting] by Rene Magritte. It's on a massive canvas and is truly striking.

How much did Nolan Ryan pay for the Round Rock Express in 2003? Googlemeister (talk) 16:31, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are a couple of figures at the bottom of this site, which is the closest I've found thus far. If it helps your search, Ryan didn't purchase the Round Rock Express, he (and some other investors) purchased the Jackson Generals and moved them to Round Rock. Matt Deres (talk) 19:31, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, here we go. $5 million according to this LA Times article. Matt Deres (talk) 19:33, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not so sure, according to that article, the Jackson Generals were the AA team for Houston. That describes the Corpus Christi Hooks (also owned by Ryan). The Express used to be in Edmonton unless I have been misinformed. Googlemeister (talk) 21:40, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am planning to start a site related to cooking tip and recipes.I would like to know from where i can download the latest dump of Wikipedia .The link that is already available from your site is confusing for me .I am in need of sql dumps on cooking alone if possible else on the whole with other subject(articles).can you please give me a url that will help me download the database directly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.164.200.80 (talk) 16:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

http://download.wikimedia.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.44.54.145 (talk) 17:38, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And would you prefer to download from Wikipedia or Wikibooks:Cookbook:Table of Contents? Nanonic (talk) 18:09, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What caused the whole pirate and ninja phenomenon to break out? Was there one defining thing (Television show, etc), or did someone just think it would be a cool idea if a pirate and a ninja fought? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.101.15.164 (talk) 20:25, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See Pirates versus Ninjas. Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:36, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

January 1

I need to maintain a minimum of 90% humidity in a controlled environment for a research project. What is the minimum temperature that will allow the test environment to maintain 90% humidity?Silasalbert (talk) 03:29, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Er - I think you have a slight terminological misunderstanding here! The amount of water the air can hold is indeed less at lower temperatures - but when we talk about "90% humidity" we mean ninety percent of the humidity that the air could theoretically hold at that temperature. So 90% humidity air at 1 degree Centigrade is pretty dry air - but 90% humidity at 38 degrees is like breathing soup! So I guess you can have "90% humidity" at any temperature above freezing...at which point the term becomes somewhat meaningless. SteveBaker (talk) 04:14, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Even below freezing there is a equilibrium vapor pressure [8]. So one can continue to talk about the "humidity", though in practice no one does. Dragons flight (talk) 04:27, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the prompt responses. I'm still grasping for undersanding.Silasalbert (talk) 02:14, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you want 90% relative humidity at 0 degrees Celsius, make the dewpoint -1.44. At -20 C, make the dew point -21.21. At -100 C, make the dew point -100.48. At -200 C, make the dewpoint -200.04. At -273C, make the dew point -273.03, per [9], which also cheerfully calls for a dewpoint of -273.18, lower than absolute zero, at absolute zero(-273.15), for 90% RH. Edison (talk) 05:33, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As the other posters have pointed out, there's no _theoretical_ lower limit. The _actual_ lower limit will depend on your environmental chamber, and you'll have to look in at the manufacturer's datasheet to find out what that is. Heraeus-Vötsch's range can regulate humidity between 10 C and 95 C (see page 4 of the datasheet), and other manufacturer's ranges will be similar. Tevildo (talk) 12:54, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I read somewhere (thestudentroom.co.uk I think) that 75% of people are virgins at 16, 50% at 18(?), and 25% at [i forgot]. Can anyone help? Thanks and happy new year. 81.129.216.86 (talk) 06:48, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

People lie when asked about such things, so such statistics are very unreliable. 78.146.210.81 (talk) 11:15, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

True. However, this survey suggested that the proportions are about 70% at age 16, 30% at 18, and 8% at 20 - a broadly similar breakdown to this one. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:07, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would refuse to answer such personal questions, so those who do answer may be an untypical subset. Even if the surveys are similar, then it just shows people lie in the same way on average. 92.24.83.55 (talk) 15:06, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

only 8% at 20? I find that very unlikely. There's a lot of uncool, unpopular, or plain ugly people out there, more than 8%.Aaronite (talk) 16:55, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes...because you'd have to be one of those subsets to possibly be a virgin...Anyway, some people have mentioned self-selection and sampling bias, which I may as well link you to. Vimescarrot (talk) 17:27, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not "loss" of anything, instead it's gaining something about which Queen Victoria allegedly said Oh Albert, this is far too good for the ordinary people. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 18:13, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oddly enough Vic said this to Al when he was in the can. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:23, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

^{[citation needed]}