Talk:International reactions to the Israel–Hamas war: Difference between revisions

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The article is currently divided into "Expressed support for Israel", "Expressed support for Palestine" and urged restraint. This categorization is misleading as many countries fit into more than one category. Secondly, many countries have blamed Israel for the violence, without explicitly expressing solidarity with the Palestinians. We should not try to categorize the reactions.

If we want to divide the reactions into sections, we can do so by region, like Middle East, Europe etc.VR _talk 18:23, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

agreed Abo Yemen✉ 18:51, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please, undo that so it will be easy to understand. AhmedAhzaam787 (talk) 12:29, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

i didn't change it btw Abo Yemen✉ 12:35, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AhmedAhzaam787 would it help if we categorized the countries by region?VR _talk 20:27, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I urge you to reupload the map, as it gives a really helpful overview. As an alternative to the „Support Israel“ Category, we could name it „Condemn Attack“ Jexplorer8421 (talk) 21:12, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Please, do it. AhmedAhzaam787 (talk) 14:31, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think it'd be good if someone does a fiveway categorization. Although subjective, 1-5 is pretty normal for a scale. Kennyluck (talk) 08:31, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why are we including a small alternative British news publication's opinion on the situation in the section on "Other political/militant entities"? It feels like undue weight to me. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 18:53, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would say this should be removed unless there are third-party sources to point to notability of it, or unless - and this should not happen in a free society - there is a legal response to it. As of yet, there is neither. Including this would justify including the self-published opinions of all publications or individuals, which is WP:INDISCRIMINATE Unknown Temptation (talk) 19:52, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I previously removed it, but @WeatherWriter reverted my edit with the summary We do when reporters are in support for the attack. All aspects need to be covered for a neutral POV (WP:NPOV). I left a message on their talk page, but they haven't responded yet. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 19:53, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have self-reverted the section. I do not believe it violates UNDUE weight as a reporter, without any bio stating opinions are their own and not the company, but rather a bio stating they report for the media organization, supports the conflict, who is based half-way ‘round the world. That said, it seems my belief is not with the majority, so the info has been removed. That said, as pointed out by Unknown Temptation, if a legal response occurs, I will re-add the information and would be extremely strong to keep it on there as no editor could justify an UNDUE weight with it at that point. Until that hypothetical situation though, it is removed. Cheers y’all! The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 20:13, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

DO WE REALLY NEED THEM?! 2804:14D:5C32:4673:220:CC5E:2105:CE2B (talk) 20:30, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a general precedent for including flags in these types of articles. Partofthemachine (talk) 21:35, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, the flags are despised by editors. Remove them. Abductive (reasoning) 05:12, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we should keep the flags, but please don't just remove them. Turn the lists into tables instead, and leave out the flags. Renerpho (talk) 16:06, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note that International reactions to the war in Donbas (2014–2022), which this article may use as precedent, also uses the flags. Whatever we decide to do to one article, we should also apply to the other. Renerpho (talk) 20:26, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes we do as they serve as a navigational function instead of searching through the sea of words Abo Yemen✉ 14:39, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This post shows The Ministry of Foreign Affairs / Yusuf Tuggar's statement on the Gaza-Israel conflict that calls for "de-escalation and ceasefire", although it will need a better source. https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=632489302391713 — Preceding unsigned comment added by JaxJaguar2 (talk • contribs) 20:32, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I found a source that mentions the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' response on the conflict. [1] The source I linked to is listed as a "[g]enerally reliable source for Nigeria-related information". Wikipedia:WikiProject_Nigeria/Nigerian_sources JaxJaguar2 (talk) 01:17, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done, using the leadership.ng reference. Renerpho (talk) 04:57, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request to International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add new Zealand to countries who urged both countries to exercise restrainthttps://twitter.com/NanaiaMahuta/status/1710726458413650075?t=ujmsEoQyLioCkfk336gKzQ&s=19 Fnfp (talk) 21:51, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Renerpho (talk) 04:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Could someone add Moldova? Sources for president's reaction [2]. Sources for the prime minister's reaction [3] [4]. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 22:29, 7 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Someone who speaks Moldovan has to look at this. I could use Google translate, but I am absolutely not going to cite a computer-generated translation in an article about such a sensitive topic. Renerpho (talk) 04:49, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the president's,^[1][2] and prime-minister's^[3][4] reactions on Twitter/X in English and the report in Moldovan news. Also FYI Moldovans speak Romanian. WikiEnjoyer123 (talk) 08:53, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Renerpho (talk) 15:38, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I have no access to the second source (the jpost.com article). Renerpho (talk) 05:38, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In Berlin the attacks where celebrated, im sure that there are more celebration protests around the world, should these be mentioned in the article? https://web.archive.org/web/20231007231849/https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/terror-unterstutzer-feierten-angriff-aus-israel-polizei-lost-propalastinensischen-aufmarsch-in-berlin-neukolln-auf-10588360.html FSbiran (talk) 01:07, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the article should include a section about non-government reactions, including protests, especially where those are in contrast to the official government response. Renerpho (talk) 04:41, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Will make a demonstration chapter. Borgenland (talk) 04:48, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'm sure Berlin is not unique in this, and I hesitate to add it as the single entry. Maybe we can collect here before giving the (almost certainly false) impression that Germany was somehow special in this regard. Renerpho (talk) 05:00, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe good to start with demos in the Middle East that were reported earlier. Borgenland (talk) 05:24, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Borgenland: If you have references for those, that's a good start. I have collected a few reports from Europe and the United States below, and a (hopefully reliable?) link to planned events from around the world. Renerpho (talk) 05:31, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I recall there was mention in the mother article. Will come back to it since I’m out right now. Borgenland (talk) 05:38, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

More from other countries below. Feel free to add to the list... Renerpho (talk) 05:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• A list of planned protests as of 7 October, according to the Palestinian Prisoner Solidarity Network, can be found here: [5] This includes links to the organizers of the individual events. I do not know how reliable this source is, and which of these events actually happen(ed). Renerpho (talk) 05:28, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Berlin/Germany: Pro-Palestinian activists and left-wing groups celebrate attacks on Israel.[6] Renerpho (talk) 05:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• London/England: Police increases patrols in London after reports of Israel attack celebrations. Immigration minister Robert Jenrick shares video posted by TV presenter Rachel Riley of people waving Palestinian flags in west London.[7][8] Renerpho (talk) 05:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• New York/United States: US pro-Palestinian groups applaud Hamas terror onslaught, plan support rallies. Student groups backed by New York chapter of socialist party organize demonstrations in approval of attack.[9] Renerpho (talk) 05:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Paris/France: Demonstrators gathered in Paris to demand that Palestinians be given their human rights and that Western governments end their complicity with the "Tel Aviv regime".[10] Renerpho (talk) 05:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There were demonstrations in Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Yemen [11] Abo Yemen✉ 14:20, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have added the protests in London and New York. The link to the protest in Paris above is from a source that's generally considered unreliable, so I haven't added that. Renerpho (talk) 15:34, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Principal Secretary for Foreign Affairs Korir Sing’Oei said that “Kenya strongly condemns the despicable terror attack against Israel and regrets the carnage and senseless loss of life”. X, [12] The Standard (Kenya), [13] JaxJaguar2 (talk) 01:34, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Renerpho (talk) 04:24, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I think 'contry' in the first sentence should be corrected to 'country'. JaxJaguar2 (talk) 13:35, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thank you. Renerpho (talk) 15:35, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article currently asks for better sources in multiple places where we link to statements made by government officials on Twitter (example). Do we really need different sources though, given that those Twitter accounts clearly have the authority to speak for their respective country, and this article is mainly about those reactions? Renerpho (talk) 04:01, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ideally, yes. Non-Twitter sources are preferable per WP:TWITTERREF. Tomorrow and tomorrow (talk) 04:34, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:USERGENERATED Does not really apply here. These are government accounts, and Twitter is merely used as the platform to make (official) statements. Renerpho (talk) 04:46, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

They are still primary sources and need secondary sources for analysis. Primary sources are not suitable for Wikipedia. Abductive (reasoning) 05:13, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. WP:TWITTER-EL also raises the good point that Tweets are easily deleted with no record. Furthermore having news articles demonstrates the notability of the reaction/statement. So ideally, we should not solely rely on Twitter refs. That said, with fast changing current events like this one, we can't always get the 'ideal scenario'. Hence why the status quo is a good balance. Tomorrow and tomorrow (talk) 05:16, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, agreed. Hopefully the tags will encourage the addition of secondary sources, should they exist. Renerpho (talk) 05:24, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with most points raised, but ordinary webpages also regularly get deleted. Fortunately, tweets are easily saved for the future with WP:WAYBACK. Fairly easy to do manually, but I presume one could get a bot to do it too (e.g., this). This is not really all that different from ordinary webpages. RN1970 (talk) 14:20, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@RN1970: https://iabot.wmcloud.org currently times out on this page because there are too many links to archive. Renerpho (talk) 17:35, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If a government says something official in a hot topic as this one in a social network, then proper press articles detailing such a thing are likely to take place shortly afterwards. Cambalachero (talk) 18:59, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Mexican Foreign Relations Secretariat issued an statement in its official X account condemning the terrorist attack suffered by Israel and called for an immediate ceasefire.

Here's the link to the post: https://twitter.com/SRE_mx/status/1710683465224475089?t=vSyyLe1um4ja9WleU1Vi-Q&s=19 2806:109F:10:9E6E:FD35:B055:7DD5:EE66 (talk) 06:41, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the translation:

"The SRE condemns the attacks suffered by the people of Israel with the unfortunate loss of human lives. Mexico sends its condolences to the victims' families.

At the same time, it makes a call to the ending of this meaningless violence, with the purpose of avoiding an escalation that causes bigger damage and suffering to the civilian population.

Mexico considers necessary to retake the procedure of direct negotiations in good faith between both parts, leading to a fair, plentiful, and definite peace agreement. The previous statement must be between within the two-state solution, recognizing the right of Israel and Palestine yo coexist in peace, inside safe borders agreed mutually and internationally recognized, in congruence with the resolutions adopted by the United Nations" 2806:109F:10:9E6E:FD35:B055:7DD5:EE66 (talk) 07:10, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Third party source provided. Looks like we can add Mexico to "Expressed solidarity with Israel, but called for peace negotiations". --ManhattanChase (talk) 17:57, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done, together with the secondary source. Renerpho (talk) 19:58, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

South Korea, a U.S. ally, issued a statement strongly condemning what it called "indiscriminate" attacks on Israel from Gaza. "The government expresses its deep concern over the large number of civilian casualties caused by these attacks," the statement added.

<https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Israel-crisis-sparks-worry-in-Asia-from-India-to-Thailand>

On the 7th, the government criticized Hamas, the armed political faction that governs the Gaza Strip in Palestine, for carrying out an airstrike against Israel.

"We strongly condemn the indiscriminate attacks against Israel from the Gaza Strip, including rocket attacks" the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a spokesperson statement, and urge them to stop immediately.

<https://www.yna.co.kr/amp/view/AKR20231007059800504> 220.126.160.216 (talk) 12:23, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Already  Done Renerpho (talk) 19:59, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

President condemns the Hamas attack and expressed condolences to the Israeli victims https://rtcg.me/vijesti/drustvo/475512/milatovic-osudio-napad-hamasa-na-izrael-.html 79.140.150.50 (talk) 07:31, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Already  Done, but added your secondary source. Renerpho (talk) 20:13, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Malaysia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs responded by a tweet of a press release, stating their deep concern over the latest escalation of violence in the Middle East. They call for the further loss of life, suffering, and destruction to be stopped and both parties should exercise utmost restraint and de-escalate.

The MFA states that Palestine has the right to live in a state of peace within its own internationally recognized borders, based on the pre-1967 border, with East Jerusalem as its capital. They also criticize the disproportionate treatment and flagrant hypocrisy in dealing with any regime that practices apartheid and blatantly violates human rights and international law, other than stating that Palestine has been subjected to prolonged illegal occupation, blockade and sufferings, the desecration of the Al-Aqsa, as well as the political of dispossession at the hands of Israel as the occupier.

Official tweet usable as a citation: https://twitter.com/MalaysiaMFA/status/1710912526454788251

Malaysia's Prime Minister, Anwar Ibrahim, states that the international response is biased when it comes to the violence and oppression against the Palestinians. He also mentions Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land and the consequences of it which leads to the conflict. He also states that Malaysia will keep its solidarity with the Palestinians.

Tweet to cite with: https://twitter.com/anwaribrahim/status/1710973713699733893

BlueHelvetical (talk) 08:43, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Already  Done per secondary source. Renerpho (talk) 20:19, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well appreciated. BlueHelvetical (talk) 01:06, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

should add the bahraini's forwign ministry response, taken from their website:

The Kingdom of Bahrain is closely following the developments taking place between Palestinian groups and Israeli forces, leading to an increase in violence and armed attacks that claimed the lives of a number of people and injured others. It stresses the need for de-escalation among all parties to preserve the lives of people. 213.137.73.11 (talk) 11:47, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

please provide sources Abo Yemen✉ 14:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Already  Done Renerpho (talk) 21:42, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure why we have a section on Islamist organizations[14], and is that even accurate? For example, Al-Azhar is listed under that category, but is it really Islamist? I would change that to "Muslim organizations". But that seems imbalanced as we have nothing for Jewish and Christian organizations which have also reacted.VR _talk 12:30, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think Islamic is a better term. Borgenland (talk) 13:11, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Calling some of these "Islamic organizations" seems at least as inaccurate. I have removed the entry on Al-Azhar, as the least inaccurate option (in my opinion). I think the intention of the section was not to single out Islam, but to specifically talk about Islamists. If we decide to change the title to "Islamic", we should indeed include relevant reactions by Jewish and Christian organisations, as VR has suggested. Renerpho (talk) 16:02, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just for clarity, Borgenland has just split the section, listing Al-Azhar under "Religious organizations", together with entries about pope Francis and others. I think I can support this solution. Renerpho (talk) 16:17, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it inaccurate to call both Al-Azhar and Hezbollah as "Islamic organizations"?

I don't agree with grouping Al-Azhar with Pope Francis - what do the two of them have in common? I support having Christian reactions in their own section as well as Jewish reactions in their own section. International Jewish reactions are especially significant given Israel is involved, and they should not be lumped together in an ambiguously titled "Religious organizations".VR _talk 14:04, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What is ambiguous about the current section title?

I have no objection against a separate section for international Jewish organisations, considering their relevance for the topic (assuming you have such reactions ready to be added to the article; there are none so far). We can discuss whether Islamic organisations should have their own section for the same reason. However, I don't understand the "lumping together" argument. What they have in common is precisely that they both come from religious organisations, as the section title says.

We are currently singling out Islamist organisations. My argument for doing so is their extreme position, and that many of them are primarily militant rather than religious.

I recognise that, due to the sensitive topic we are talking about, this may deserve its own discussion. Renerpho (talk) 15:02, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It has been proposed in this section that International reactions to the Israel–Hamas war be renamed and moved to Reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict → Reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict – Move makes room for a more inclusive article, in which Palestinian and Israeli "local" reactions can be added, or create a new separate article for the same purpose. I am in favor of either. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:51, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - local reactions are a part of the main article Abo Yemen✉ 14:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It won’t be too long where it’ll become too long and needs forking. Makeandtoss (talk) 15:01, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - That would allow a flood of numerous non-significant opinions from media personalities. Ergzay (talk) 14:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So? Reactions to the Russian invasion of Ukraine Makeandtoss (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If they are non-significant then they can be removed as not notable. In cases where they are significant, the article currently doesn't offer an easy way to add them. Renerpho (talk) 16:14, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. No need to have this article be moved; domestic reactions to the conflict are probably best handled in the main article at this moment. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 15:01, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, but support in case the main article is forked. Renerpho (talk) 16:08, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And please don't take that as an invitation to fork it. I don't think that is necessary at this point. There is some chance that this changes by the time this RM closes, in which case my vote should be counted as "support". Renerpho (talk) 16:09, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

South Africa has called "for the immediate cessation of violence, restraint, and peace between Israel and Palestine" and " expresses its grave concern over the recent devastating escalation in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The new conflagration has arisen from the continued illegal occupation of Palestine land, continued settlement expansion, desecration of the Al Aqsa Mosque and Christian holy sites, and ongoing oppression of the Palestinian people. The region is in desperate need of a credible peace process that delivers on the calls of a plethora of previous UN resolutions for a two-state solution and a just and comprehensive peace between Israel and Palestine." so the reaction of South Africa should be added (source: https://www.dirco.gov.za/) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:4802:41F:2F60:91D4:3928:AE60:628B (talk) 14:55, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Update on this: the ANC has publicly expressed their support for Palestine.

<https://www.news24.com/news24/politics/political-parties/anc-backs-palestine-actions-in-israel-that-have-left-hundreds-dead-thousands-wounded-20231008> Seven Train (talk) 15:13, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Renerpho (talk) 15:49, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cuba, Panama, Venezuela, Peru, Bolivia, Guatemala, Ecuador, and Mexico, I hope someone can add them to the list Horizon Sunset (talk) 16:35, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Renerpho (talk) 19:54, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The context of the war last month would be worth noting as "having recently faced...". armenia is also not blue on the map. Condemn the violence and de-escalate.37.252.80.255 (talk) 18:13, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That map is gone, for the moment.

What would that context be? If you have a source that makes a link between the two conflicts, we may be able to add it. The government reaction did not explicitly mention it, so there is no justification for us to do so.  Not done Renerpho (talk) 20:33, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

the saudi's are clearly more condemning of israel. Which is VERY pertinent in talk of setting up relations (which is likely off now).37.252.80.255 (talk) 18:17, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The government response may be carefully worded, but it is what it is. I read the rest of your comment as speculation, but if you have other sources that shed light on Saudi Arabia's position, you're welcome to share them here. Renerpho (talk) 20:35, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hezbollah are part of the ruling coalition in lebanon and ansarullah are partly ruling in yemen, as well as trump being a candidate in the election (even if opposition). The three should be under their countries' colors (with Lebanon actually being IN government). Not sure about the status of the Iraqi group. If not in govt, it can be opposition or religious or even just stay there.37.252.80.255 (talk) 18:23, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Abo Yemen: I noticed that you moved the page twice to add "List of": [15], [16]. This is inconsistent with other articles at Category:International reactions to armed conflicts. Triggerhippie4 (talk) 18:30, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Triggerhippie4 but this article IS a list. But as long as removing the "List of" part makes it consistent then im fine with it Abo Yemen✉ 18:55, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Abo Yemen: It currently looks like a list, but it is not supposed to be one. It has to evolve into something like International reactions to the war in Donbas (2014–2022) in the future, or something similar to Reactions to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Renerpho (talk) 20:25, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Renerpho oh okay makes sense Abo Yemen✉ 09:40, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The image given in the lead is both inaccurate and misleading. Its inaccurate as Oman and Egypt have both blamed Israel partially (along with calling for de-escalation) but are shown as yellow.

But the bigger issue that it is deeply misleading because many countries have multiple stances. For example, Pakistan clearly called for de-escalation yet it is not yellow? I'm removing the image for now.VR _talk 20:19, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Compare my comment at Talk:International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict#Map of the international community's stances. Maybe it would be better to combine the two sections. Renerpho (talk) 20:28, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think that map is useful, but is there a way to clarify that these are official positions? Representing nations as monolithic blocks can be misleading. Renerpho (talk) 16:23, 8 October 2023 (UTC) Moved here from that talk page section, to avoid duplicate discussion. Renerpho (talk) 20:52, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well this very page is about official reactions isn't it? Synotia (moan) 21:01, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and official reactions are often not so simple. Renerpho (talk) 21:26, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• France, while expressing solidarity with Israel, also seems to have called for de-escalation "Palestine, Israel in deadly war as Egypt, France seek de-escalation". Likewise, Germany said it "will gladly support" Egyptian attempts to de-escalate the situation, while still condemning Hamas and supporting Israel. So that's further evidence that you can't group the countries into categories as many countries have held multiple stances.VR _talk 20:43, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Furthermore, countries like Brazil, which condemned Hamas, also called for de-escalation and also called for establishment of a Palestinian state[17] in the same statement. This is different than the US and Canada, which condemned Hamas without any reference to Palestinian rights. So in the map it is misleading to color Brazil as the same color as the US.VR _talk 20:46, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree that it may be impossible to make a map to illustrate such a complex issue. Renerpho (talk) 20:53, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On Commons I included on the discussion page the code to insert into mapchart.net to edit the map. Synotia (moan) 20:59, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

1.) Please mark French-Guyana as blue, as it is a French territory.

2.) Switzerland made a statement, which can be read here: https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/fdfa/fdfa/aktuell/newsuebersicht/statements/israel.html

3.) I would suggest to rename the „Support Israel“ category into „Condemn attacks“, as this fits more statements by countries. Jexplorer8421 (talk) 21:08, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Jexplorer8421: I guess Nr. 1 and 3 are about the map, which is currently not part of the article. I'll look into Nr. 2. Renerpho (talk) 21:29, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Renerpho (talk) 21:41, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Costa Rica's reaction can be found here Horizon Sunset (talk) 00:01, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Renerpho (talk) 01:47, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Moussa Faki Mahamat called on both parties "to return, without preconditions, to the negotiating table to implement the principle of two States living side by side" and "wishes to recall that denial of the fundamental rights of the Palestinian people, particularly that of an independent and sovereign State, is the main cause of the permanent Israeli-Palestinian tension", several websites have shown that (for example'The Africa Report') — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.67.142.245 (talk) 03:02, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request to International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add the statement made by the Leader of the Official Opposition (Canada) Pierre Poilievre: "I unequivocally condemn the invasion of Israel by Hamas terrorists and the sadistic violence they have subsequently carried out against innocent civilians. Israel has the right to defend itself against these attacks and respond against the attackers. Canadians pledge their solidarity with all the victims." (source: https://twitter.com/PierrePoilievre/status/1710647500137210033) 50.100.124.46 (talk) 06:15, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. Consensus seems to be not to include statements from Opposition leaders. Tomorrow and tomorrow (talk) 11:23, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. There was no such consensus, see Reactions from opposition leaders and former heads of state. Renerpho (talk) 14:44, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request to International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add the statement made by Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew: "Our thoughts and prayers are particularly with the civilians, who experience painful moments of anguish, terrorized by the eerie sound of the sirens and the imminent threat of the explosions, and especially with all the innocent children, who deserve to get raised in a truly “Promised Land” of peace and prosperity." (source: https://orthodoxtimes.com/ecumenical-patriarch-all-children-deserve-to-get-raised-in-a-truly-promised-land/) 50.100.124.46 (talk) 06:21, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Tomorrow and tomorrow (talk) 11:26, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a news source which makes reference to the statement made by Official Opposition Leader Pierre Poilievre: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-poilievre-condemn-hamas-attack-on-israel-ambassador-to-canada-calls-violence-unimaginable-1.6593134 ZeusMinerva25 (talk) 16:51, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Added, per previous talk page section. Thanks! Renerpho (talk) 22:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request to International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add the statement made by former Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper: "Last night, as Canadians began to celebrate the Thanksgiving weekend, Israelis were attacked by the terror group, Hamas. Today, as Canada wakes up to unspeakable images of terror, pain and war we must remain shoulder to shoulder with Israel as it responds to, and defends itself from, these criminal and cowardly acts of terror. To friends in Israeli and around the world, I hope you know that today and always, through fire and water, Canada will stand with you." (source: https://twitter.com/stephenharper/status/1710685367857545718) 50.100.124.46 (talk) 06:25, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. Consensus seems to be not to include statements from former leaders. Tomorrow and tomorrow (talk) 11:20, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. There was no such consensus, see Reactions from opposition leaders and former heads of state. Renerpho (talk) 14:44, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a news source for the statement made by former Prime Minister Stephen Harper: https://www.timesofisrael.com/world-reacts-in-shock-and-horror-to-attacks-on-israel/ ZeusMinerva25 (talk) 17:01, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Added, thanks. Renerpho (talk) 22:21, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unclear why the government response from Taiwan from several hours ago has been removed. 1.175.184.146 (talk) 07:11, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The removing editor said he's done it because there was no citation, which I consider legitimate given that the response editor was an account-less. I've brought the response back BTW but without a statement from presidency, which could be added later. Kennyluck (talk) 12:07, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

thanks--of course, that makes sense--I didn't recall the original source 1.175.156.22 (talk) 22:30, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request to International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Request on removing the following reference: "[27]巴以冲突，中方表态了：这次我们没站在以色列一边" [In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the Chinese side said: this time we are not on the side of Israel]. Toutiao (in Simplified Chinese). October 9, 2023. Retrieved October 9, 2023." This statement/argument is from a video channel neither governmental channel nor major news/media outlet, this video channel is created by a scholar. Maybe improper reference? Haers6120 (talk) 08:29, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Tomorrow and tomorrow (talk) 11:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In a few of the edit requests above, Tomorrow and tomorrow has stated that consensus seems to be not to include statements from Opposition leaders. Is that really so? We have sections about demonstrations, reactions from religious and islamist organisations, but nothing from oppositions or minorities? Renerpho (talk) 13:36, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would object to the removal of Trump's stance. He helped contribute for this crisis. Borgenland (talk) 13:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We had statements from Morales, Trump, and Corbyn on the page. I do not know why they were removed, I do not think there was a true consensus reached. Paragon Deku (talk) 14:10, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It seems User:Guycn2 removed the section without seeking consensus. Considering all three statements had heavy media coverage, I am in favor of adding them again. Paragon Deku (talk) 14:13, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. I suggest the statements by Pierre Poilievre and Stephen Harper, which were proposed to be added earlier and rejected on grounds of a non-existent consensus, should be added as well; of course we could discuss their inclusion separately, if necessary. Renerpho (talk) 14:15, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have added back the removed section. I have not yet included Poilievre and Harper, which I suggest should be combined as one item (considering both are Canadian). Any objections? Renerpho (talk) 14:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC) I have also changed the section title to "public figures and opposition leaders", to make clear that we are probably not seeking the opinion of any public figure. Again, this of course is up for debate. Renerpho (talk) 14:25, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have now addeed Poilievre and Harper, too. Renerpho (talk) 14:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks everyone, I realise I was too hasty to say there was a consensus, and I'm comfortable with the one generated above. Happy editing.Tomorrow and tomorrow (talk) 20:56, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I saw that there was no map in this article, so I made one. It wasn't until I saw the discussion page that I discovered that there was a map that had been made, but it had been removed from the article. So I just want to put the map I made here, please feel free to use it if it's helpful:

File:International reactions to the 2023 Gaza–Israel war.svg

BTW, this is an SVG map so it's easier to edit. BlackShadowG (talk) 14:01, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, appreciate it! Could you remove the blue color for Antarctica? Or is there a reason why it is blue? And would it be possible to create a map where country borders are visible? Jexplorer8421 (talk) 16:36, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An illumination of the Israeli flag was projected onto the UK Prime Minister's residence at 10 Downing Street in London on 9 October. This was added to the "demonstrations" section. Was this done in protest against the UK's official position? Otherwise it should probably go somewhere else. Renerpho (talk) 14:30, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BOLDLY moved accordingly. Renerpho (talk) 14:32, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All five strongly condemned Hamas's attack on Israel and should be included in the list.

• https://sofiaglobe.com/2023/10/07/bulgaria-condemns-hamas-terrorist-attack-on-israel/
• https://english.sta.si/3222240/slovenia-condemns-hamas-attacks
• https://eng.lsm.lv/article/politics/saeima/09.10.2023-latvia-pledges-unwavering-support-to-israels-legitimate-right-to-defend-itself-after-hamas-terror-attack.a527029/
• https://www.riigikogu.ee/en/news-from-committees/foreign-affairs-committee/chair-of-the-foreign-affairs-committee-condemns-hamas-attacks-against-israel/
• https://today.rtl.lu/news/luxembourg/a/2124065.html

GlebRyabov (talk) 14:39, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Renerpho (talk) 22:58, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Humza Yousaf, first minister of Scotland, condemned the actions of Hamas and stated that his in-laws are "trapped" in Gaza (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67057367). Relevant because his wife is Palestinian. He also tweeted that his "thoughts and prayers are with those caught up in the situation" (https://twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/status/1710653011125502380) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haidetsu14 (talk • contribs) 15:03, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected redirect at International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Seeing as the original source for Sudan's reaction was deprecated, I've found a non deprecated reliable source: https://english.news.cn/20231008/9ec33e9411d54089a6e74457f10e5aa1/c.html#:~:text=%22Sudan%20renews%20its%20support%20for,Ministry%20said%20in%20a%20statement. TheLibyanGuy (talk) 15:44, 9 October 2023 (UTC) TheLibyanGuy (talk) 15:44, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Another source for Sudan: https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/africa/2023-10-09-how-african-countries-have-split-over-israel-gaza-conflict/ TheLibyanGuy (talk) 18:26, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

China's statements have also come through on this concern, stating the parties to refrain and restrain, while exercise precaution for peace and dialogue. I request the addition. source: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3237203/china-calls-calm-and-restraint-israel-declares-war-after-deadly-hamas-raid 110.235.217.21 (talk) 15:52, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request to International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In addition to the Canadian Prime Minister, add the statement made by the Minister of Foreign Affairs Mélanie Joly: "Canada unequivocally condemns the multi-front terror attack against Israeli citizens by Hamas. Canada firmly stands with Israel and its right to defend itself against terror under international law. My heart is with the victims and all those affected by these attacks." (Twitter source: https://twitter.com/melaniejoly/status/1710653935697133597 / news source: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-poilievre-condemn-hamas-attack-on-israel-ambassador-to-canada-calls-violence-unimaginable-1.6593134) ZeusMinerva25 (talk) 16:58, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Her reaction is basically identical to that of the Prime Minister, which is already cited per the same source. I think it suffices to quote one representative of each government, unless there are notable differences (which is not the case here). Renerpho (talk) 22:32, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why Antarctica is shown in blue in picture? Is Antarctica also expressed support for Israel / condemned HAMAS Attack?

If yes, then which source claim this? اقبال کا شاہین (talk) 17:50, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Jamaican prime minister Andrew Holness states "The Government of Jamaica condemns in strongest terms the attack by the Hamas group on Israel, resulting in the deaths, injury and abduction of Israeli civilians. We convey our sympathies to the Government and people of Israel and to the families of all those affected." (6) Andrew Holness on X: "(1/3) The Government of Jamaica condemns in strongest terms the attack by the Hamas group on Israel, resulting in the deaths, injury and abduction of Israeli civilians. We convey our sympathies to the Government and people of Israel and to the families of all those affected." / X (twitter.com)

The Belizean Foreign Affairs Minister states "Belize regrets the hostilities between Hamas and Israel and calls for immediate de-escalation. Israeli Apartheid must end. We call for a Palestinian state with all rights including East Jerusalem as its capital and the right of return." (6) Eamon Courtenay on X: "#Belize regrets the hostilities between #Hamas and #Israel and calls for immediate de-escalation. #Israeli #Apartheid must end. We call for a #Palestinian state with all rights including East Jerusalem as its capital and the right of return. #PeaceNotWar !" / X (twitter.com) Port-au-princien (talk) 19:51, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please color Zambia blue on the map per their response 2601:40:C481:A940:693D:9F:5A3B:1700 (talk) 20:18, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey y'all, while the map in the article doesn't have political borders, I still think it should correspond to those borders (not de facto control). While Polisario-controlled Western Sahara is fine I guess since the borders for that haven't substantively changed for decades, why are the Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine included as part of Russia? The annexations are internationally unrecognized and do not add value to this map. And if the map is going to be based on de-facto control, Sudan, Myanmar, Ethiopia, Yemen, etc. might as well be turned into Jackson Pollocks.

Cheers, Dan the Animator 21:12, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: This request was removed about half an hour after its original publication, by the same user Dantheanimator.[18] I am sure they had a good reason to revert it, and I considered leaving it at that. However, I think the proposed change is not unreasonable, unless there is some misunderstanding on my part, and we may benefit from looking at it. The strike through is my doing, as an attempt to indicate that the author may no longer agree with what they originally wrote. Thanks for your understanding. Renerpho (talk) 23:44, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected redirect at International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Add statement by the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, in which the General Secretariat "condemns the continuing Israeli military aggression against the Palestinians and affirms that the continued occupation is the cause of instability" (institutional source: https://www.oic-oci.org/topic/?t_id=39707&t_ref=26680&lan=en) ZeusMinerva25 (talk) 22:32, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected redirect at International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Add the letter addressed to Haim Bibas, Chairman of the Federation of Local Authorities in Israel by the President of the Congress of Local and Regional Authorities of the Council of Europe, Leendert Verbeek, in which he expresses "his solidarity with the national, regional and local authorities in the face of the brutal terrorist attacks carried out by Hamas". (institutional source: https://www.coe.int/en/web/portal/-/president-leendert-verbeek-expresses-the-solidarity-and-support-of-the-congress-to-authorities-and-citizens-of-israel) ZeusMinerva25 (talk) 22:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is requested that an edit be made to the extended-confirmed-protected redirect at International reactions to the October 2023 Gaza–Israel conflict. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any extended confirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{EEp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Add pro-Palestinian rallies were held in Canada: Ottawa (news source: https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/pro-palestine-rally-held-in-downtown-ottawa-as-mayor-condemns-hamas-attack-on-israel-1.6593869), Toronto (news source: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/palestinians-gather-in-toronto-for-rally-more-demonstrations-expected-across-canada/article_f32794fd-bad9-50d2-b74c-35ed50db3c3a.html), in Montreal (news source: https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/dozens-gather-for-pro-palestine-rally-in-montreal-1.6594438), in Halifax (news source: https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada/news/dozens-rally-against-anti-palestinian-racism-in-halifax-100831217/), in London (news source: https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/hundreds-of-londoners-rally-for-palestine-after-hamas-attack-on-israel).

Add pro-Palestinian rallies were held in Athens, Greece (news source: https://www.amna.gr/en/article/766844/Protest-gathering-held-at-Israel-embassy-in-Athens) ZeusMinerva25 (talk) 23:02, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]