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Hi. I am currently in a fellowship and am interested in working on a project that contributes and surfaces information related to regional variations in standards of care by disease state. I have created a mock-up page, titled Hypertension in Scotland, that contains the type of information I am interested in working on in Wikipedia. I have realized that similar efforts are currently going on for HIV/AIDS by country (e.g. Category:HIV/AIDS by country). What's the best way for me to go about doing this? Thanks. GT67 (talk) 14:49, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for posting here and welcome. First of all an in depth explanation of what you propose to do is probably the first thing needed. I am not sure what surfacing information means? Look at the link above are you proposing to create an article called Hypertension in Scotland than another called Hypertension in Wales, Hypertension in Canada, Hypertension in India etc? We typically have a main article and than subarticle based on our usual sections. Epidemiology in different places would be discussed in Epidemiology of hypertension, etc. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 15:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have talked with this user previously. By "surfacing information" he means that it would be good for users to be able to see standards of care in one place and compare it to the standard in another place. There need not be commentary or sources to back this; the sources for Scotland only talk about Scotland and for Canada would only talk about Canada, and users get to be surprised by seeing variations in the two places. In this model there is no system for discussing the differences overtly or pointing them out on Wikipedia because sources which do that would be much more difficult to find and format than the practice guidelines. A key aspect of this is that hopefully, sharing regional guidelines would be something which could be replicated in rote for multiple diseases in many regions. I believe that this user is able to replicate this kind of content if the Wikipedia community finds that it is useful. I also think that this could be the basis for starting discussions off-wiki about why there are regional variations in standards of care.

Another way to state the project proposal is that it is to collect a government's description of the standard care in a region, then describe in a Wikipedia article the care for that place only. This process is repeated for many diseases and regions. This is interesting only if there is regional variation in standards of care, which there are, and I think that users would be fascinated to see that differences exist.

I see these problems with this model:

1. Wikipedia often does not have high quality general articles on health issues, so developing articles on particular regional variations may not be a priority.
2. It is not certain that sources describing care in a particular region will be easily found. Knowing that sources exist would make engaging this project a lot easier.
3. It may not be easy to give all articles parallel structure. I would like to think that the information in one article, say hypertension in Scotland, could be compared with hypertension information for another region. However, this depends how easy it is to identify comparable information in the various sets of source data.

If this project were to proceed, I can imagine there being a section in the base article for a topic which was called "regional variation". This would link to a list of all existing articles on standards of care by region. This could be a lot of work requiring skilled workers, or it could be something which could be done by rote if the source data was understandable and if a model template existed.

About epidemiology - many regions track their own epidemiology. The one to which James linked is sufficient for the base article on hypertension, but there is data for many individual countries. No one has ever thought to add each countries' own statistics to Wikipedia because we had enough trouble just giving one global measurement. Undoubtedly this project would be forking each existing health article into a dozen or even a hundred more articles.

If it really were feasible to incorporate this sort of information into Wikipedia then I think that would radically improve the quality of health articles on Wikipedia in a way that only Wikipedia and not other communication platforms could deliver. The potential for interlinking in this way would be very difficult to do outside of Wikipedia and this is a novel and very creative idea. I think that this idea deserves consideration. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sure a better example is here Epidemiology_of_obesity. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 16:31, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That is a much better example... wow, this is very close to the original proposal. I will have to think about that. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:53, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your feedback. I'd be happy to clarify further. Blue Rasberry has expanded on the key points well. I've learned that many countries view and/or tackle disease states differently, whether it be due to cultural, societal, economic or other reasons, and this type of information is not readily available for all to view in one standardized place. The mock-up article I created, is an example only, of the facets of information that can vary. To add to Blue Rasberry 's comments on 'surfacing information', perhaps patients and patients advocates at the local level of these regions would have notable resources that are available/visible to them that perhaps may not be to the rest of us. Doc James's example of Epidemiology of Obesity speaks to the notion of surfacing a facet of the regional standards of care and I've also seen the Management of Obesity article, which could potentially have the same notion of regionalization applied. I could also envision articles to fork into other facets such as Diagnosis by region as well. I've also seen the format used in the Category:HIV/AIDS_by_country, which stems from the Portal link of each country's articles page (see 'Health in China' in Portal:China page) and seems to mash together information into one article location. Both of these are great examples for structuring regional variations. I'd be interested to know which type of article structure would be deemed most editor- and user-friendly. GT67 (talk) 18:11, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

IMO each subarticle could deal with national variations as it pertains to that subtopic. This would allow people to more easily compare different stats or practices in different countries. Typically this is too much detail for the main articles. These articles often already exist and could simply be added to. I am not a big fan of "disease in X" format as it is not clear how they would be linked in. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 19:51, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@GT67. Is it possible you could improve unwarranted variation? Biosthmors (talk) 20:54, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Biosthmors. You bring up a good point. Surfacing information around regional variations in care may help discern where unwarranted variation exists. One could envision this sort of information to populate and look something similar to John Wennberg's work at the Dartmouth Atlas of Health Care, but on a global-regional, scale. And one could argue that with this sort of information organizations, similar to the NCQA in the U.S., could potentially be a vehicle for improving some of these variations. However, determining the route cause of the unwarranted variation is debatable. GT67 (talk) 18:45, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Doc James. I believe I understand what you have in mind. I'm going to mock-up some articles and see if the structure is on par with what you are thinking. Thanks. GT67 (talk) 18:45, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've reformatted my original mock-up article (Hypertension in Scotland) and have broken it down into subtopic articles. I want to be sure the format aligns with what you have in mind; the Epidemiology_of_obesity article also contains a "regional box" at the bottom of the article. It sounds as though you prefer to have regionalization within the subtopic article as follows: Management of Hypertension, Diagnosis of Hypertension, and Epidemiology of Hypertension (please note the sections I filled in for "Scotland") rather than a regional box stemming off of the main article (See "External links" section of Hypertension). Does this look on par with what you have in mind? Thanks. GT67 (talk) 23:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

After chatting with Biosthmors, I learned that the mock-ups were a bit too detailed in faceted information and did not align well with the summary style format; I could see how this could introduce clutter. Additionally, as Doc James mentioned, it would be better served to follow a format similar to the Epidemiology_of_obesity article, where each subtopic that presents variation would fork out to separate articles, and offers side-by-side comparison of the regions. My next question is, in WikiProject Medicine, when is it deemed the appropriate time to fork out a separate subtopic (e.g. Epidemiology of obesity or Management of obesity) from the main article if let's say those articles did not currently exist? Thanks. GT67 (talk) 15:25, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, I have just nominated circumcision for Good Article. If we can get this one to GA it will be WP:MED's first surgical procedure article to be either GA or FA. The article is an English Wikipedia top-1,000 most-viewed article. Zad68 22:14, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is some debate about whether the primary male circumcision article should principally focus on the medical or on the cultural aspects of the phenomenon. The German and French equivalent both lean more toward the latter and include substantial debate concerning the merits and demerits of the procedure missing so far from the english language version--— ⦿⨦⨀Tumadoireacht ^Talk/_Stalk 10:48, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Although the Circumcision article is in much better hands now, it will take a tremendous amount of work to undo seven years of damage. I must give Zad68 credit for the improvement in stewardship of this article. The article is biased towards an American point of view in which the foreskin is treated as a vestigal flap of skin. The rest of the world knows otherwise. Circumcised editors in-the-dark about the functions of the penis have allowed bias and pro-circumcision propaganda to creep into the article. The article is full of factual inaccuracies, fallacies, and bias. The ethics/human rights of circumcision is ignored (see the FGM article for comparison), and harmful affects of circumcision are ignored. You can see the French and German Wikipedia articles on circumcision to see how biased the English version is. This article is on its way to becoming factual, but it is not yet ready for prime time. Crimsoncorvid (talk) 03:13, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We don't compare articles to articles to determine neutrality. We compare articles to sources. Biosthmors (talk) 05:08, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So are you claiming that the German or French language Wikipedia articles on circumcision are somehow deficient? I don't understand. Obviously, the same sources are available worldwide, so the only differences between articles would be editorial discretion. Crimsoncorvid (talk) 14:48, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly, much of all language wikis are deficient including English. High quality references are often not consistently used. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 16:14, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I recently helped a new editor with wiki syntax and was impressed with the article he wrote on Atypical Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome. The article was accepted and moved to article space.... I commented to a doctor friend and he replied

I agree that the article is quite impressive. However, do you know if this editor may have any ties to the pharmaceutical company that makes Eculizumab? The reason I ask is that I have seen this drug being recently promoted under the guise of "continuing medical education." Also, the amount of space the author devotes to the drug seems a bit out of proportion to the size of the article. Further, there is a very good Wikipedia article on hemolytic uremic syndrome (the context in which atypical hemolytic uremic syndrome is usually discussed) and this article does not mention that context or link to the other article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemolytic-uremic_syndrome

I am not qualified to comment, please have a look and fix, link, etc.... Regards, Ariconte (talk) 04:13, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes we should look closely at it. Lots of primary sources. Some formatting issues. Some serious summarizing needed. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 05:20, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The article should ideally be merged with the main HUS article. As with regards eculizumab, I suspect that rather than being connected to the manufacturer the author is simply placing emphasis on the data that was accumulated for eculizumab during the outbreak of HUS in Europe last year. JFW | T@lk 06:56, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

While merging to the 'main' article is a legitimate opinion/option, it's an option that I would not support for several reasons. 1. Although there often can be significant apparent clinical overlap between Stx-HUS, aHUS, TTP, and other TMAs, especially on initial presentation, the field very clearly has evolved over several years (not mere recentism) toward distinguishing these when possible, and toward discussing each in a more separate way than previously (see for example:^{[1]: 1928, 1931, 1938} in comparison to its previous edition, and in comparison to Williams from 2010.) 2. This does not necessarily mean that Wikipedia should aspire to this level of sophistication and detail, but perhaps the 'real question' should be what is a Wikipedia "interested general reader" looking for, and when (under what circumstance/s) will they read this / these articles? For such a reader, would merging be helpful? I will do some work on the aHUS text. FeatherPluma (talk) 20:55, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to nominate (medical) articles to Wikipedia:Today's_article_for_improvement/Nominated_articles#Natural_Sciences. TAFI will be going on the main page with a small slot in early February, it appears. Biosthmors (talk) 08:10, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And there is a merge proposal at medical certificate, which is more accurately "This week's article for improvement": Talk:Medical_certificate#Merge_proposal. Biosthmors (talk) 15:47, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've nominated pulmonary embolism. I encourage you to nominate some articles. There are only 6 in the natural sciences section and besides PE they include Summer, Present, European conger, Grey Tinamou, and Listeria ivanovii. Biosthmors (talk) 21:31, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How reliable is the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States (SIECUS) for medical information? SIECUS seems like an okay source to use, but mostly for general health information. That said, the SIECUS Report journal seems more reliable than the SIECUS website. What has led me to create this section is my concern about some of the sources that newly registered editor SU ltd. is adding to medical articles; other than the Masked depression article, he is currently mainly editing articles partly or fully about sexuality. He's only used SIECUS for a biography article thus far, but it has to do with medical information. The editor's contributions currently show some sources that I'm wary about. One example of a definite sourcing issue is his removal of GoodTherapy.org at the Masked depression article he created; as his edit summary states, he removed it because it's blacklisted by Wikipedia. There was concern about the Masked depression article before it was created. And four minutes after it was created, concern that it needs attention from an expert on the subject was expressed; see here and here. So I'm worried about some of the sources SU ltd. has been using for his Wikipedia contributions and feel that he may need to be directed to the WP:MEDRS guideline. The Masked depression article, for example, significantly needs more recent medical sources. He's clearly not new to editing Wikipedia and likely edits the Russian Wikipedia, but different Wikipedias have some different guidelines. Flyer22 (talk) 21:28, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Any comments on this? I'm also concerned about the use of Russian and Polish sources; I've often seen such non-English sources thrown out when used on the English Wikipedia, per Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English sources. Flyer22 (talk) 09:59, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Flyer22! Thanks for your attention to my contributions. Of course, I’m quite aware of the fact that using non-English sources (esp. those in Russian and Polish) is inexpedient here. By the way, I myself expressed the same apprehension during the discussion of my article “Masked depression” at Andrew Kurish’s Talk Page. At first I didn’t add Russian sources to the article at all. Then he challenged the correctness of my information. That was why I adduced Russian sources to confirm the validity of my statements. To support my description of the disorder was the only reason for inserting references to Russian materials on the subject. Also I expressed my hope that these sources would be substituted by English ones in future.

As for your reproach “they are very old,” I have to say that newer monographs published by leading Russian psychiatrists a few years ago expound the same notions. For example, I can name “Endogenous depression” by A.S.Bobrov, “Depressions in General Practice: Management Manual” and “Depressions in Somatic and Mental Illnesses” by A.B.Smulevich, “Psychiatry: Clinical Recommendations” (2009, the section treating F32 in ICD-10) by Neznanov, and other books. So I can’t agree with your opinion that a few of the references are given to the long out dated publications. The only problem that should be resolved stems from the Russian language which these books are written in. Anyone who is familiar with English-speaking literature on the subject can overcome the drawback mentioned and point out relevant English books. Perhaps the current state of my article is much better that the absence of an article explaining this psychiatric condition. I was greatly surprised at the fact that there were no articles about hidden depression either in English WP or in other languages including Russian and Polish. To my mind, I’ve merely stopped the gap in.

The same can seemingly be said of your reply concerning EEG changes during ejaculation. The role of mediators (dopamine etc.) in sexual function is known to everybody, so that even lays attempts to draw a parallel between the sexual impulse and drug addiction are pretty popular. But not a single allusion to the EEG studies had been present in the article about orgasm until I added some of the sources. Now I’m asking about newer studies of the relationship between sexual stimulation and EEG records. Could you name the most recent scientific results? I don’t mean either Russian or Polish studies. On the contrary, I’d like to remove them from enwiki. I’ve merely started adding information on the subject, and now I’m asking about English-speaking publications. --SU ltd. (talk) 00:41, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, SU ltd. Thank you for taking the time to reply here at my request. Yes, of course, at Andrew Kurish's talk page (which I linked to above), I had seen the part of your comment about using non-English sources. But it still did not seem (to me at least) that you were aware of the Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English sources guideline. Even after I commented to you about this, I deduced that you had only recently become aware of this guideline. For example, it's only after I mentioned it to you that you added this tag to the Masked depression article. But remember that the guideline says that it is not always necessary to provide a translation, and that, even though translations "published by reliable sources are preferred over translations by Wikipedians," it permits you to do the translations.

As for my calling some of the sources you have been using "very old" per the WP:MEDRS guideline, although I stated that "I'm definitely worried about your use of sources that are very old," I also stated that "it's understandable when there hasn't been much scientific progress on a particular matter and when it's at least pointed out that the studies are old and/or when contrasting them with newer studies." The Use up-to-date evidence section of the WP:MEDRS guideline, for example, states, "These instructions are appropriate for actively researched areas with many primary sources and several reviews and may need to be relaxed in areas where little progress is being made or few reviews are being published." In the Orgasm article, you've pointed out that the studies are old by adding dates to them in the article's text and have contrasted them to newer studies; so that isn't a problem. It's only if you use very old sources in a way that it comes across as definitive for a medical topic or other type of scientific topic, when, in actuality, new research on the topic may be reporting something different. And when old and new research are reporting the same thing, we should use the newer sources to the exclusion of the older sources...per the WP:MEDRS guideline.

As for my reply concerning EEG changes during ejaculation, all I originally stated was "Doesn't need an expert any more than other sections, and expansion will come naturally or we'll just [leave it as part of the Brain section without the subheading]."[1][2] So I'm not sure how you deduced what you did from that reply. And, as you also know, I stated that "I'm certainly not familiar with Russian or Polish research." Yes, I have read about the relationship between sexual stimulation and EEG records, but not extensively and I can't, at this time, name the most recent scientific results. I can't even remember the studies I have read on that topic; I've read so much sexuality information, some a lot more than others, that I sometimes have to extensively refresh my memory on whatever topic is in question. On other occasions, I have what is pretty much a photographic memory. I take it that you've searched for English-language studies (such as studies done by American scientists), especially recent ones, on this particular EEG aspect? Flyer22 (talk) 01:57, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Strange. Not a single English review article in the last 10 years. Interesting, it is not an accepted condition anymore [3] The problem is that our article presents it as such. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 07:17, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Doc James-- it looks we have if not a notability problem, at least an WP:UNDUE issue, along with incomplete understanding of WP:MEDRS. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:26, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks a lot for your replies. Dear Dr. James, I’m especially grateful for your reference. Dear Flyer22, I’m not going to hype Russian or Polish books in English WP and I’m far from overvaluing the importance of SIECUS, too. The website is of little interest to me except their journal. Moreover, I disagree with sexologists’ evaluation of the sexual impulse as a whole (I consider it a vice), so that I’m interested in more specific issues than general information of SIECUS. It is lack of profound research that makes me avoid AVEN and the forums of antisexuals even though I share their basic convictions.

You’re right I was searching for the most recent EEG studies when I added a new section to the article about orgasm. In contrast to your reproaches, this search of mine stems from the fact that I can’t get such information in Russia. Besides, I have no medical education. I studied humanities at university, but I’m not even a psychologist, let alone a psychiatrist. I haven’t even got friends who are professional physicians and can give me some advice or recommend me foreign literature to read, at least. I even tried to contact some of the Russian psychiatrists, but failed. In order to get relevant information I’ve thoroughly learnt Russian and Polish literature (both textbooks and a number of monographs) on psychiatry and sexology. But this kind of literature leaves many questions open if only because writings by Russian psychiatrists and (especially!) sexologists cannot be treated as reliable sources.

I’d like to cite Randykitty, apropos of that: “Being well-known in one country is not the same as being well-known in another.” The same must seemingly be said of Russian sexologists. It is known that the level of research in the leading Western countries is much higher than that in Russia. As examples, take my stubs concerning Abram Svyadoshch and Lev Shcheglov. I’ve created the stubs in order to show that these people are considered to be great authorities on sexology in Russia. But are they in a position to answer my questions? No, I’m afraid. In their books, it is taken for granted that brain activity during orgasm is similar to the neurophysiologic events which are characteristic of seizures in patients with epilepsy. An obvious question arises for me here: “Who of the scientists has obtained these data?” Writings by Svyadoshch and Shcheglov don’t reply. Neither of them alludes to the corresponding source.

The only hint that literature in Russian offers is limited to a few words in Kazimierz Imieliński’s monograph who mentions Mosovich & Tallaferro although he does not name their publication. When I had managed to reveal the source, it turned out that the validity of their experiment was rather doubtful. So I’d like to know the current state of affairs and clarify my question as to whether EEG tracings during coitus and epileptic seizures are similar. Unfortunately, I don’t understand either German or French. But I’ll be very grateful if someone names the most valid and recent investigations in English. I think it is very good that you have created this section here rather than at my Talk Page. Maybe someone will be able to help with relevant sources.

Of course, this particular EEG aspect is not the sole problem which Russian books cannot explain. E.g., the theory of sexual addiction is a hot topic in Western debates. Unlike American investigations, Russian literature on the subject is very scarce. But its meagreness doesn’t give rise to insurmountable obstacles here because books by American experts (Patrick Carnes, Eli Coleman etc.) can easily be purchased from Amazon, the main papers by Aviel Goodman being available in Moscow’s libraries.

I have dwelt on what the books by Russian sexologists are not at such length that it may, perhaps, cause perplexity. But I’m surprised to see you writing reproaches of that kind. I hope I’ve shown that I’m not engaged in advertising Russian books on sexology if only because I myself don’t think much of them. As for concealed (masked, disguised etc.) depression, it is not for me as important as EEG records mentioned above. Jmh649’s reference merits close attention, of course. But it does not dispel doubts. We are to elucidate the psychiatrist’s statement. --SU ltd. (talk) 21:04, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

SU ltd., I was wondering (without expressing it you or others) about the level of sexological knowledge among Russian and Polish scientists because I know that some countries/cultures are significantly behind others on such information. There's the AIDS epidemic and its relation to safe sex, for example. And knowledge about human female sexuality (and both human male and human female sexuality in some cases) is suppressed in some countries/cultures. So thank you for bringing that up here in this discussion. I likely would have brought up that matter to you at some point.

Regarding sources... Where do you look for sources on topics such as these? I know that you look on Google Books, but there are places like PubMed and other medical resources listed in the WP:MEDRS guideline.

Regarding reproaching you, I think you know that it's not personal. The word "reproach" makes me cringe a bit in this discussion because it sounds like you feel that we were/are reprimanding you, especially as though you are a child. It's not so much about reproach or reprimand (especially not the latter), but rather about wanting to help you and thereby help Wikipedia. Flyer22 (talk) 23:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks, Flyer22. You’re now helping me with my English. Yes, I often use inadequate and inappropriate words because English is not my native language.

And yes, it should be stressed in every way possible that Russian sexological publications including those of Russian authorities are by no means reliable sources. The examples of Svyadoshch and Shcheglov witness to the fact that Russian sexology is sorely behind highly developed cultures. While providing references to their books, I only wanted to point out that the experiment of Mosovich & Tallaferro had acquired international fame, so that even sexologists in backward countries (such as Russia and communist Poland) expounded these data. To put it differently, the cited statements of Svyadoshch etc. are nothing but a historical fact.

The question I’m seeking to answer is whether these statements have not only historical justification but also an actual sense. I have insufficient material to give an answer to this question at once. I’ll have to go to the Lenin library (the chief library of Russia). Maybe I’ll manage to find out something. But I have inevitable doubts concerning my ability to illuminate the question whether coitus includes epileptic brain activity. While Imielinsky simply formulates such an assertion, reading biological investigations on this subject presupposes profound knowledge in the field of neuroscience. Although I took biology at university, I know this science too little to understand EEG studies. That’s my main problem, I think. I’d better ask a neuroscientist or a physician, of course. I attempted to ask a professional, but it was not a success. And yet my reference to the experiment of Mosovich & Tallaferro shouldn’t be removed from the article if only because it indicates a remarkable landmark in the history of studying the nature of orgasm. Maybe a Wikipedian who is a biologist by education will be able to complete my reference and add information concerning the current views on EEG tracings during orgasm. If I manage to get such information myself, I’ll add it to the article about orgasm. --SU ltd. (talk) 10:25, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A majority of the full-length papers devoted to masked depression and published in the 2000s are written in Russian [4] (with very few exceptions). Similar English-speaking publications appeared a few decades ago. Unfortunately, I’m not familiar with psychiatric literature in English. That’s why I wondered if my article was not AfD. Dear Dr. James, I have some considerations concerning your reference, but I haven’t free time to express them now. Hope I’ll return to the matter later on. --SU ltd. (talk) 15:31, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

SU ltd., I combined the section back into one. Your split made it seem like you were replying to James out of nowhere and that James started a section titled Masked depression article on this talk page. That's bad form. See the WP:TALK guideline. I started the section, which includes concern about the Masked depression article, and I would rather that remain clear. If you want to start a new section about the Masked depression article on this talk page, you are more than free to do so.

As for EEG studies with regard to sexual stimulation (including orgasm), one reason I asked about where you look for sources is because there are English/American research sources about EEG with regard to sexual stimulation (including orgasm), old and recent, seen on Google Books. Flyer22 (talk) 16:53, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Flyer22, thank you very much for your references! Unfortunately, I can’t read them now as I’m leaving home for a weak tomorrow morning, with the consequence that I’ll have only little Internet access. But I’ll include them in the article (“orgasm”) as soon as I read them. I attempted to divide the section into two because it seemed too long. But it doesn’t matter. MD is not really uin the center of my interest. Besides, Jmh649’s reference misses the point, I’m afraid. I’ll reply to his remarks some day. But EEG records deserve much more attention. I’m sorry I haven’t got any friends among neuroscientists or physicians. How vexing! --SU ltd. (talk) 18:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. And, in talk page discussions, you can always create section breaks (a subsection titled Section break, for example). See Wikipedia:Arbitrary section break#Resectioning. And with regard to not having neuroscientist or physician friends, there's nothing wrong with that. Most of Wikipedia's topics aren't written by experts. And while it's no doubt a good thing for a person to be well-read on whatever topic that person is going to be extensively editing, it's not, as I'm sure you know, a requirement. Wikipedia cares more about WP:COMPETENCE and following its policies and guidelines. Flyer22 (talk) 22:32, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

James D. Watson has hypothesized a positive correlation between antioxidants and cancer, and has harshly criticized cancer researchers.

• James Watson Says Antioxidants May Actually Be Causing Cancer (10 January 2013)

—Wavelength (talk) 01:44, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. Watson has said a number of silly things. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 03:52, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Looks more like some media made a complete mess out of what he actually wrote. Richiez (talk) 18:05, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes more justification why we do not use the popular press as references. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 20:25, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For medical journalism, there is training, as described at http://www.nieman.harvard.edu/reportsitem.aspx?id=101220.

—Wavelength (talk) 20:31, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't seem that there is much going on this wikiversity school, I was wondering if anyone here is/was involved with this? lesion (talk) 10:50, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes would be interesting if medical schools jumped in. But it is hardly used or improved at this point. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 17:09, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

An anon IP and a new account are adding information to the transfer factor page with questionable or no referencing. The topic may be attracting new interest, but I don't believe they are accepted as treatment for any medical conditions yet. Experienced and knowledgeable contributors would be appreciated, it is possible I lack the expertise to edit the page appropriately. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 17:28, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good eye. It needs some scrutiny it appears. I tagged it with {{medref}}. Biosthmors (talk) 18:37, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am attempting to make the information scientifically accurate. I source only peer reviewed journals, outline that the human treatments as "pre-clinical", and distinguish that the research lymphocyte derived molecule described in the opening paragraph and photo is not the same thing as the dietary supplement. This is no different than the page for IL-1B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IL-1B), which outlines the cytokines immune effects, cites a clinical benefit (from a research forum page that is a list of published articles), but does not endorse it as a therapy. I work at the NIH on transfer factor (the cytokine, not the dietary claims) and I do not lack the expertise to tell the two apart. I welcome any further opportunity to improve the scientific accuracy of this page. LCDR IAM (talk) 19:43, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please have a look at the seven points I make at Talk:transfer factor. While your information may be accurate, that does not mean it is without problems as far as wikipedia is concerned. Note that referring to other pages for examples is always problematic, we must refer to the policies and guidelines as they represent the consensus of the community. It is, after all, a wiki - anyone can edit it. It's quite possible that IL-1B was edited improperly. I will be quite happy to improve the scientific accuracy of the page, but it must be within the strictures of the P&G - you may be an expert on TF, I am far more experienced on wikipedia than you are. So let's help each other. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 20:05, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I welcome your offer of assistance and responded the the points in the talk section. Please keep in mind that my original edits were simply deleted by you with a "no it should not". This does not send a message that you are concerned about the accuracy of information. But it sounds like everyone is now on the same page that I am not trying to sell this stuff, just trying to get the page to reflect the science accurately. LCDR IAM (talk) 20:18, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think we're done here at WT:MED then, further discussion should take place probably at talk:transfer factor. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 21:02, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

At first, I thought that "transfer factor" referred to DL_CO diffusing capacity. (I am a pulmonologist.) I do not believe that the immunological definition is the primary topic. Indeed, if anything, the respiratory definition should be the primary topic. I think that a disambiguation page would be the best solution. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:23, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comments at Talk:Organic_milk#RFC The Banner talk 03:41, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above linked discussion concerns whether or not Wikipedia should make a distinction between sexual dysfunction and sexual disorder. Flyer22 (talk) 07:42, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mean to beg, but there is currently a one-on-one discussion (just two people involved) going on here and so comments from this project regarding the matter are needed. The discussion includes looking at medical sources and using those to help formulate our opinions. Flyer22 (talk) 00:59, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There should be impact to WP:MED content from courses that have signed up (Special:Courses) and here is a more complete list at Wikipedia:United States Education Program/Courses/Spring 2013 that includes those who have expressed some interest. I think there is always a need for experienced Wikipedians to establish good working relationships with professors, so that they can learn the ways of Wikipedia and design/grade their assignments optimally so that editors and readers benefit more consistently from WP:AFSE. I'm signed up to help with Signal Transduction/Saint Louis University so far, and I've spend several hours helping the professor design the assignment. (Hopefully we'll get a good article or two on some good science content out of this specific effort.) I'll ask Sage Ross to clarify needs here. Biosthmors (talk) 14:43, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also be interested in finding others to help in either (or both) of two sections of an online Molecular Biology class that will start next week. I and the professor ran this project last semester (course pages here and here) and it was fun, but we could definitely use some more help reviewing articles and giving guidance on finding reliable sources, citing, general style, and finding and adding appropriately-licensed figures. Ideally, we could find one or two people willing to sign up as online ambassadors, but more informal reviewing, when the time comes, would also be a big help. Klortho (talk) 14:57, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This one concerns me ... with 90 students in what looks like an intro course, it typifies the kind of course where we usually see issues. Do we know anything about it/them? Do we have a course page yet? OA ?

• Anthony Derriso, University of Alabama, Educational Psychology (90 students- RA is working on setting up group assignments or making this optional)

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:01, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The RA should mean regional ambassador and here's a list[5]. I emailed the two listed as under the South region and I asked that they comment here if they were the RA. Biosthmors (talk) 15:14, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What mechanisms are in place to deal with copyright issues? Sourcing issues? Etc. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 02:03, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well for the class I'm signed up for I've talked with the professor about what I should do in case a copyright violation occurs. They want me to notify them in that case. This professor also knows Wikipedia prefers secondary sources and they have been made aware of WP:SCIRS. I think this class will add nearly all molecular biology information; communication will be focused at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cell Signaling. Biosthmors (talk) 02:23, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the #Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2013 January 14#Sexual disorders matter above, it has formed into a move discussion. Flyer22 (talk) 17:32, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I'm doing a peer review on the article Rape and pregnancy controversies in United States elections, 2012. Aside from anything else, I think that anyone aware of the use of rape in recent ethnic conflicts (e.g. in the former Yugoslavia) would find the claim that pregnancy cannot result from so-called "forcible"/"legitimate" rape untenable. However, what's the best source meeting WP:MEDRS from which a definitive statement may be drawn on the incidence of pregnancy consequent to rape? Thank you. FiachraByrne (talk) 02:49, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well:

• The definitive primary study is Holmes 1996, which estimated a pregnancy rate of 5% after rape and approximately 32,000 rape-related pregnancies annually in the US.
• The most relevant and definitive secondary source is probably the recent statement on rape and pregnancy from the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, which cites 10,000 to 15,000 abortions annually among rape victims in the US, along with an indeterminate number of pregnancies.

I hope those are helpful. MastCell ^Talk 06:15, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Mastcell, that is most helpful. FiachraByrne (talk) 12:04, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I made a misstake an undid a edit with vandalism in electrocardiography, sadly the vandalism was made over more than one edit. Could somebody please make a rollback an correct it? Thanks. --JakobSteenberg (talk) 19:59, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Wasn't a big deal, thanks for keeping an eye on it! Zad68 20:02, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. --JakobSteenberg (talk) 20:03, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

When WP:Hospitals was created in 2010, there was a consensus (here) that Hospital articles would belong there, and that the 2 projects would be complementary. There remains a historic hangover from that era, which I estimate as c 80 articles that are currently in both projects, and maybe 200 total in WP:MED that should reside in WP:Hospitals. There will be a minority of articles that should stay in WP:MED if there is a genuine Medical reason to stay here.

At a low level I have been implementing some of these changes, and ensuring that articles are tagged in WP:Hospitals. However, now I am exposing this activity for consultation before I proceed further. Comments? welsh (talk) 21:00, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is great and happy to see all hospitals removed from WP:MED to WP:Hospital. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 22:25, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To make what has gone into the archive less forgotten as 2013 continues, I've started Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Good article goals for 2013. Please make any goals there if you have an article you want to commit to bringing up to GA-status. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) 00:25, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Many new editors that get introduced to Wikipedia through the Education Program in the sciences are pre-med (here's one). They would like to obtain recommendation letters to get into medical school. I think we could retain some of them to raise the quality of our important articles to GA if there were some WP:MED M.D.s willing to mentor/interview them online a bit (maybe three 30 min skype interviews)/and oversee some of their edits in return for a letter of recommendation. Maybe we could even recruit some M.D.s to help out with this even if they weren't super active Wikipedians. Comments? Biosthmors (talk) 00:34, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

User:JMathewson (WMF) (Jami Mathewson) of the Wikipedia Education Program was planning some kind of certification program for anyone who participated in Wikipedia projects and wanted some kind of reference. It might be a good idea for meta:WikiProject Med to develop standards for certification for medical courses, then allow students or anyone else to go through the screening process for that organization and get a recommendation from that organization. The idea that Jami was exploring was for the upcoming thematic chapter which will handle the US and Canadian education program to issue certificates or recommendations for that program, but I am sure they would love for other organizations to share some of the reviewing responsibility and if WikiProject Med wanted to take on that role then that would be an excellent way to partner with the education program.

If anyone were to explore this further, I would recommend checking in with Jami to see if anyone has already drafted a certification process. If not, then it needs to be drafted. Once it is drafted, then the education program and the medical review project could share it and encourage other organizations to also emulate the model if they liked in other fields.

There are other potential advantages to partnering with the education program, and the disadvantages which come to my mind are not so great. Thoughts? Blue Rasberry (talk) 01:04, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I think it would be appropriate to send out letters of recommendation. If a student comes and significantly improve an article here I would personally feel comfortable writing said letter. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 01:10, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I like the spirit of this, but would such a letter carry much weight? An important preamble to a medical school recommendation letter is the basis of the recommendation - is it based on personal knowledge and substantive interaction? I hope students will consider this carefully. How would the letter-writer know who did the editing they are judging? Compare this with a university faculty member who leads a WP-editing course during which login-sharing would represent academic fraud. I think the stakes are too low while editing WP casually for it to be a meaningful academic activity, and identity would be very hard to confirm. In the end, such a letter might be a liability or an asset, and students should seek guidance from an academic adviser. I just don't want to manipulate very vulnerable editors if the only clear benefit is WP content. -- Scray (talk) 03:47, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Or the student uses (or declares) their real name and ends up making a right mess of their contributions. Either because they didn't understand the subject well enough, didn't understand plagiarism issues, say, or picked a hot topic where they had to mix with some unsavory types. That could bugger-up their chances of med school for good. Colin°^Talk 11:39, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is there some reason those risks identified by Scray and Colin cannot be avoided by the proper design of the "standards of certification for medical courses" that Blue Rasberry discussed? LeadSongDog come howl! 14:32, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Scray - I think that gaining an understanding of how Wikipedia works is increasingly becoming a fundamental job skill in many fields, including medicine. If the patients of any health care provider are getting health information from any online media source at all, then the most likely source of that information is Wikipedia. Because of this, I think that health care providers who work with people who use the Internet as an information source should understand how Wikipedia works and what information it contains. Certification for minimal Wikipedia literacy has value. This program could expand from student certification to health worker certification or into certain countries' "continuing education" requirements for jobs, because the Internet-using demographic is becoming increasingly important as a health education outreach audience.

Colin and LeadSongDog - I also think there are a lot of problems with this proposal and I do not want to sort through all of them. If possible, I would like to tie the success of this program to the success of the Wikipedia Education Program. That project is already to come up with a certification program of some kind and the people with that must develop something. If we work with them then at least they will be forced to manage reputation control for worst case scenarios, which I think is the most difficult and boring part of this to manage. I think that no one wants for this program to harm anyone who cannot complete it. Blue Rasberry (talk) 14:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a problem with this per se. With that said, I think that there are a couple related issues that might argue against a student asking for such a letter in the first place

1. There remains an academic bias against wikipedia as a reliable, scholarly endeavor. With very rare exceptions, I think it's probably safe to say that a letter from a WPian based on activity here will still, and for the forseeable future, get you the proverbial side-eye, because it seems unlikely to me that as a whole, admissions committees (AdComs) are going to be composed of people who do not share this bias.
2. My understanding (and I have not sat on any admissions committees but i do have some experience with this, please feel free to contact me on my talk page or directly) is that the reasons AdComs like seeing LoRs from professors is that professors have direct, substantial contact with students, and see a lot of students each year and so are prepared to assess the promise of their students in a way that e.g. an employer is not (for reasons of turnover, standards of progress, etc). I don't get the sense that a LoR from someone on WP would go very far towards addressing the largely-unstated requirements there.

With that said, if someone has the room to pursue this (other good strong letters, etc) I would have no issue with it. It puts the issue out into the minds of AdComs, which can be useful in changing the debate. In the near term though, it has the potential to reflect negatively rather than positively on an applicant. If an applicant is otherwise strong it may be worth that risk.

-- UseTheCommandLine (talk) 20:34, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The opinion of medical school regarding Wikipedia has changed dramatically over the last few years. The dean of UCSF attended one of my talks about Wikipedia and Medicine last week and the assistant dean with whom we meet was interested in the project. As the most read medical resource on line and thus in the world we are in an interesting position. If a students came and did prominent work to an article I would have no problem with WikiProject Med. Foundation giving a LoR that states this. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 01:07, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the prevailing opinion of WP is improving. That's not the same as saying that working on WP, or a letter from a WP editor whom the student has never met, would carry much weight. There's a real risk here of manipulating the hopes of vulnerable students. I'd be much more swayed by a letter from a research mentor with whom an applicant worked personally and co-authored a peer-reviewed publication (where the mentor can attest to identity, integrity, reliability, and attention to detail). I am not saying it (editing WP in hope of a recommendation-at-a-distance) is without merit, but we have a conflict of interest that should be acknowledged (we need editors, and we might value WP's goals more than we value the those of the student-editor). -- Scray (talk) 03:54, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

An upcoming paper is getting a lot of fanfare:

• Ann Apolloni, Haran Sivakumaran, Min-Husan Lin, Dongsheng Li, Michael H Kershaw, David Harrich (January 8, 2013). "A mutant Tat protein provides strong protection from HIV-1 infection in human CD4+ T cells". Human Gene Therapy. doi:10.1089/hum.2012.176. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |laysummary= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

HIV-related articles are going to need a close watch. LeadSongDog come howl! 16:04, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This would be FANTASTIC if it bears out to be true after much further scrutiny, study and independent verification and testing! But not for Wikipedia articles right now... Thanks for the heads up. Zad68 17:06, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

At WT:JAPAN we are discussing if adding macron (diacritic accents) to this title to conform to the Japanese romanization of "Rashōmon" is original research or correcting bad spelling and whether MOS:JAPAN applies to this psychological concept. You are invited to respond. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 11:03, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Concerns at the above article. User is trying to emphasis the benefits of silver. And is removing secondary sources that question its benefits in this edit [6] Also attempting to deemphasize the Cochrane conclusions. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 08:30, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As per WP:MEDMOS#Symptoms or signs; the suggested template contains both the above headings. Exactly what should be in these sections? To me, differential diagnosis section might be a list of possible causes of a given sign or symptom. If so might this be also covered in the mechanism/pathophysiology section? Then again, this section could be a list of similar things which can be mistaken for the sign/symptom in question and how to differentiate them. Is the diagnostic approach section intended to be essentially a description of a diagnostic algorithm? Or a list of special investigations that might be involved in the diagnosis? lesion (talk) 00:46, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If an article is primarily about a symptom or sign, the sections about differential and diagnostic approach should cover the possible causes (differential) and how physicians will normally distinguish between them (diagnostic approach). An article such as diplopia should contain a referenced list of differential causes, and a section on how diplopia is investigated in routine practice. JFW | T@lk 06:57, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ty for clearing this up...so the differential diagnosis section is more a list of possible causes, rather than a differential diagnosis in the strict sense of the word. Maybe the diagnostic approach section would be better termed differential diagnosis, and the differential diagnosis section just called "causes" or something...lesion (talk) 14:46, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, would anyone be willing to weigh in on sourcing at this this DYK nomination? The article seems to be of the kind which should follow MEDRS, but I'm not quite sure how it would apply and if there is any wiggle room. Thanks. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:02, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Only two reported cases...is this notable enough for an article? "hair brushing syndrome" gave no pubmed hits. Agree none of these refs meet the above guidelines. lesion (talk) 01:19, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ghastly. Didn't know the Daily Mail was a medical journal. JFW | T@lk 06:58, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Have brought this issue to ANI [7] Not sure if people here wish to weight in. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 06:24, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So I've been watching the articles Contract research organization and List of contract research organizations and making occasional edits for a couple months now. The list page is a fairly attractive target for drive-by spammers, but I've now run into two separate instances of editors adding a seemingly non-notable company's name to the list page, and when I look at the editors' talk or user pages, it looks like a prospective wp article for the company in question. I nominated one, User:Richmond pharmacology for deletion at WP:MFD, but after coming across the second one, User:Thessence, I am beginning to think that this is going to occur more frequently, and I'm not sure how to handle it. I have not yet dug through the history of the list page to try and identify similar pages.

I am wondering which other wikiprojects or pages i should mention this on? I know this is not, strictly speaking, a medical page, but it doesn't look like the wikiprojects on businesses are particularly active.

advice and direction would be appreciated. -- UseTheCommandLine (talk) 00:35, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

WP:PHARMA or WP:MCB might be interested. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:01, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

These two examples are from 2008 and 2009 respectively. My concern is more when companies come and try to alter our disease related articles when they raise evidence that is negative towards something they sell. And when they do this as a way to effect regulators and maintain their profits. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 02:41, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have a History of both High and Normal ANA Levels, and I found the Compounds that raise my ANA Level, in Medications and Foods and some Bacteria and Fungi, and made my ANA Level Normal to stop the pain. I need a peer review of my findings on my talk page, we may be able to lower other People/s ANA Level to stop the pain. Stopping taking Medications is the only way to stop the pain and Lower the ANA Level, because all of their pains Medications and Antibiotics and most of the other classes of Medications, contain Inert Ingredients that raise my ANA Level, causing the Immune System to destroy many different parts of my Body that show up on CAT Scans and X-rays and Urine Tests afterwards. JosephLoegering (talk) 05:22, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We are here to write an encyclopedia by summarizing the best available literature. The above is sort of out of scope. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 06:22, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Per Gunther as posted [8] JMIR Publications is currently (Jan 2013) pilot-testing an innovative peer-reviewed journal JMIR Wiki Medical Reviews which sets out to publish Wikipedia (Review) and Wikiversity (Original Works) papers. Authors who have made significant contributions to Wikipedia articles are invited to submit the article to http://wikimedical.jmir.org/author

JMIR Wiki Medical Reviews (JMIR Wiki Med Rev) is an innovative journal which takes the best wikipedia articles in medicine, peer-reviews them, and publishes them as citable scholarly review article, with the goals to 1) Improve Wikipedia articles, 2) enhance public trust in the accuracy of medical Wikipedia articles, 4) improve visibility and indexing of outstanding Wikipedia articles (e.g. by indexing in bibliographic databases and featuring them on JMIR), 5) to acknowledge authors who volunteer their time on wikipedia to improve articles by listing them as authors in a "citable" publication, 6) to add an additional layer of formal peer-review to wikipedia articles (JMIR Wiki Med Rev - About us/Focus and Scope)

JMIR Publications will publish the first 20 articles free of charge, deposit them in PubMed Central, and will apply for PubMed indexing. JMIR Wiki Medical Reviews is hoped to become the first peer-reviewed journal publishing Wikipedia articles.

Dr James Heilman has agreed to serve as Editor-in-chief, other editorial board members are to be recruited (ideally active in Wikipedia Medicine). Editorial board members encourage Wikipedia authors to submit their articles to the journal for peer-review, select external peer-reviewers, and guide articles through the peer-review process. The publisher (JMIR Publications, represented by Dr Gunther Eysenbach) will coordinate production, which includes converting the Wikipedia article into XML, and depositing the articles in various bibliographic databases and full text databases. It is hoped that the journal will be Medline-indexed and will receive an impact factor. For the latter it is important to primarily publish articles which will be highly cited.

Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 21:07, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fantastic. I will be helping with this effort. Biosthmors (talk) 22:29, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Seriously, Doc James is always making me feel bad with all the wonderful work he does. Yobol (talk) 04:50, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What can we do to help?Remember (talk) 23:32, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome! Bagsy a place on the editorial board. Axl ¤ [Talk] 00:19, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Does bagsy mean you want to be on the editorial board? I hope so, because I think that would be great news! Biosthmors (talk) 19:19, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

_{Yes. Although it may be British schoolboy slang. Axl ¤ [Talk] 12:30, 24 January 2013 (UTC)}[reply]

I agree with others. This is obviously great news. Flyer22 (talk) 00:23, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I am aware, to help this succeed, we need to produce great content for publication and/or serve on the editorial board. Biosthmors (talk) 00:45, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes exactly. I need all of you people to join me :-) Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 06:54, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Very interesting, indeed. What a pity that I don't know English --SU ltd. (talk) 16:54, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You read, write and translate/understand English sufficiently enough, SU ltd. So I don't see why you wouldn't be able to participate, unless you are busy or would rather not. Flyer22 (talk) 19:14, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much, Flyer22. If you, a native speaker of English, consider my English sufficiently enough, then I’ll be glad to take part. I’ll be away about a month or two. As soon as I’m back, I’ll share my opinion on that if you consider it possible. Personally, I can’t agree with 7mike5000. To my mind, Jmh649 undertakes a great thing. --SU ltd. (talk) 17:02, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

LOL, you created Russian versions of those soap opera couple articles I created, SU ltd.? *Blushes* I'm not sure how interested Russian audiences are or would be in those couples, but thank you for spreading the knowledge. Flyer22 (talk) 20:45, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, Russian audiences use Cyrillic script (unlike the Poles). If you see texts in a Latin alphabet, they can’t be written in Russian. Sometimes I write something in a foreign language just for a change because I neither watch TV nor listen to music. As for the rest of audiences, they don’t matter to me. They have undoubted right to watch TV and go to the cinema if they like. --SU ltd. (talk) 02:38, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And about the encouragement, you're welcome. Flyer22 (talk) 20:52, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was not an author on the article, but Influenza seems like a good article to go through the publication process since it is already a FA and has lots of global public health implications. Remember (talk) 14:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly. Will need a lead person take it on. IMO there is still some work to do. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 15:27, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Would ketogenic diet be suitable? It needs an update with some recent reviews, though I don't think anything drastic will change as a result. Perhaps I may even get round to writing a decent epilepsy article. -- Colin°^Talk 16:09, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I sure hope ketogenic diet would fly. I want the journal to also have enough scope to publish fundamental topics to the field of medicine itself, such as blood coagulation and human circulatory system. I think we should use the journal to get topics that are valuable to medical students upgraded in quality. Medical students are a very valuable target audience or "constituency" for WikiProject Medicine. Biosthmors (talk) 19:15, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Must you keep raising the bar? You're making the rest of us look lazy... Now I'm wondering how Wikipedia:WikiProject Academic Journals is going to address this from secondary sources ;-) LeadSongDog come howl! 20:02, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think he's a group account. That's the only possible explanation. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 05:15, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've met one of him. My theory is some sort of space-time manipulation where he gets 48hr days and the rest of us struggle on 24. Certainly I don't know anyone who isn't also called James who gives more to Wikipedia. Colin°^Talk 11:40, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If someone were to support an article for publication as the author, what are the requirements? Do they have to have added a large portion of the text to the article? Do they just have to support it during review and make all the necessary corrections? I may be interested in helping to get an article published, but I don't want to bite off more than I can chew. Remember (talk) 18:20, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt having to contribute a large portion of text would be a requirement. A current featured article might not need much updating on the prose and sources, but I do think an author should know the level of text–source integrity of the article and the recent literature. Biosthmors (talk) 20:08, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As an author you need to feel comfortable standing behind the text as your name will be attached to it. Typically I would say this would require having made a fairly substantial contribution to it.

Typically this should apply for any article you have helped bring to GA/FA. I am hoping that this will encourage more people to get involved. Currently less than 1% of our medical articles has passed GA or FA thus there is a lot to chose from.

How we would handle authorship in cases where the submitting author is not one of the top authors I do not know yet. Instinctively I would prefer if this were not the case. If one has never made an edit to the article your name will not be applied. If one has only made minor changes you will be listed as a contributor rather than an author. Where this cut off will be than is the next question. Major journals allow ghost writing but this is not something I am happy with.

There is no perfect way to determine who has made the most contributions. We have this tool that breaks down edits by time and number by editor [9] but of course different people edit in different style. Some people may make a bunch of grammar changes while other may write large amounts in one go. I think part of this will be discussion with the 10 most frequent authors. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 21:07, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking of doing some outreach to M.D.s or Ph.D.s without current involvement in Wikipedia to invite them to participate as an editorial board member of JMIR Wiki Medical Reviews. Do we have a theoretical maximum of people for positions on the editorial board? 10? 15? 20? What are the expectations? A certain amount of peer-reviews? Biosthmors (talk) 20:08, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Probably best to direct this to Gunther. I am not sure how many people he wishes. I am going to ask a few docs at UCLA if they would be interested. A number have expressed interest in Wikipedia before. I have already sent a note to UCSF. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 21:12, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We've discussed the WP:Article feedback tool/Version 5 here before, so I some of you may be interested in Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Article feedback. The RFC is trying to collect information from a variety of people who follow feedback to see what they think about it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:25, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Did you know nominations/podoconiosis. Biosthmors (talk) 01:49, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

An OTRS ticket pointed me to a problem with the Sciatica. I've flagged it up on the page and talk page. If you know about the subject and have a few minutes, it'd be great if it could be fixed. —Tom Morris (talk) 18:40, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hey guys, if there are any physicians out there, I have a question for you. While searching through sound files on wikipedia, I came across some sound files that a peer-reviewed paper made available and two of the sounds were COPD coughs. Both were productive coughs and had wheezes. My question to you is whether a COPD cough file will be sufficient for the bronchitis page. I understand that chronic bronchitis is a type of COPD, but does the cough in emphysema sound any different from a chronic bronchitis cough? Or will a sound file of a COPD cough sound the same? I also believe I read something that said that chronic bronchitis patients may also have emphysema, so that is also why I am wondering if the cough is the same. This is the paper from which the cough sound files were taken: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1413549/?tool=pmcentrez and it is cough sound files 2 and 9 (2 is COPD with bronchiectasis and 9 is just COPD with bronchiectasis both with productive coughs with wheezing but the paper is more detailed). Thank you in advance for your input and help. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 06:46, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Bronchitis" is a rather vague term, and includes different disease processes. I'm not convinced that the "Bronchitis" article should be expanded in this way. It would be better to use only very brief descriptions, leading to the main articles "Acute bronchitis" and "Chronic bronchitis". In turn, "Chronic bronchitis" should also be a brief article leading to "Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease".

I'm not sure of the licensing situation of those sound files. If they have free licenses, the files should be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. Otherwise, it would be better not to use them in Wikipedia at all.

Regarding license, I think the sound files have already been uploaded to wikipedia or to wikimedia commons and are available to use. If you search cough under multimedia you can find the sound files. This addition to the bronchitis article was suggested during peer review. Axl, there are still links on the bronchitis page leading to main articles about acute and chronic bronchitis.TylerDurden8823 (talk) 15:15, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Most cases of COPD have a mixture of bronchitis and emphysema (in the pathological sense), in various proportions. Pure emphysema causes very little cough, and it would generally be "dry". Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:41, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Most acute bronchitis has no wheeze. I could take a recording of it next time I hear one.

With respect to license, yes sound files must be CC BY SA or the like. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 13:39, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify for everyone, I am specifically asking about the difference in the cough sound of chronic bronchitis and emphysema (if there is a difference). TylerDurden8823 (talk) 15:12, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I have ever seen described. All cough excepted maybe that of croup (barky) and whoop cough (cough until you vomit for 100 days) are more or less the same. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 19:22, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would expect the cough of chronic bronchitis to sound "wet" (i.e. implying the presence of significant sputum/mucus) and that of emphysema to sound "dry". (This is my own "original research".) The study participants identified this feature correctly in 76.1% of cases; random guessing would be correct in 50% of cases, so this isn't an impressive figure. As I noted above, cough is not a significant feature of pure emphysema. Axl ¤ [Talk] 20:38, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So, is the bottom line here that the cough sound file of COPD/bronchiectasis that sounds wet with mucus/sputum and wheeze an accurate representation of the cough expected in a chronic bronchitis patient? Would you agree that this is a fair representation? TylerDurden8823 (talk) 00:14, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am trying to understand what the definitive answer to the infectivity period of measles is.

There are many views on this on the net but I am sure one knows by now the truth. The wikipedia article on measles lists two different views:

The period of infectivity has not been definitively established, some saying it lasts from two to four days prior, until two to five days following the onset of the rash (i.e. four to nine days infectivity in total),^[2] whereas others say it lasts from from two to four days prior until the complete disappearance of the rash.^[3]

Any thoughts?

Jaeljojo (talk) 19:41, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Summary:

• Letter to the editor
• 6-year study on 361 participants, Australia
• 94% used Wikipedia while studying
• 85% of non-users said Wikipeda was unreliable
• Use was not significantly correlated with year of study (R²=0.67, p=0.12)
• Decline in use as a first resource was significantly correlated with year of study (R²=0.81, p < 0.02)
• Significant declines also seen with perceived reliability, use as the only resource, and being the most common resource over time
• Ease of access and understanding as important strengths
• Last sentence: "Medical school administrators would benefit from embracing and developing web2.0 resources and include their use in ongoing dynamic medical education."
  Allahwala UK, Nadkarni A, Sebaratnam DF (2012). "Wikipedia use amongst medical students - New insights into the digital revolution". Med Teach. doi:10.3109/0142159X.2012.737064. PMID 23137251.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

Corresponding Author: Usaid K. Allahwala, Royal North Shore Hospital, Sydney, Australia. I can contact Allahwala about doing an WP:AFSE, or if someone else wants to, feel free. Let's not all email though. =) Biosthmors (talk) 21:34, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Category:WikiProject Medicine descendant projects has been nominated for deletion, by merging it into Category:WikiProject Medicine -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 01:53, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]