User talk:S Marshall: Difference between revisions

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Hi, I just reverted you here. Please reclose, addressing the issue of whether pronunciations should be removed from the lede when added to the infobox. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:56, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

•  Done—S Marshall T/C 11:13, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, but I see no reference to the issues you mention in "However, when dealing with ethnic or hard-to-pronounce names it may be a good idea, so the matter is left to editorial judgment.", which appears to be editorialising, not summarising the discussion. I would have made very strong objections to exceptions on either of those poorly-defined grounds, had they been made during it. I suggest you re-open the discussion, and express your views as a participant, in order that they in turn can be discussed. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:30, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• I was editorialising, Andy. I summarised the discussion ---- roughly, I don't perceive a clear consensus to remove the pronunciation guide from the lede in all cases, but on the strength of the arguments I see clear grounds to remove it in many cases ---- and then "editorialised" by introducing examples of circumstances where editors might want to include the information in the lede anyway. I don't think I'm wrong. But would you like an independent close review?—S Marshall T/C 12:14, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, please. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:55, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • In progress here. All the best—S Marshall T/C 14:16, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Chulbul Pandey. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Derevation^{Give Me Five} 16:39, 5 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

May I impose and ask for your assistance at Steven Emerson? There has been a rash of attacks on this BLP, perhaps rightly so over his bungled interview on Fox and incorrect statements about Birmingham. Unfortunately, my BLP clean-up attempts keep being reverted. I requested PP, but as soon as it was off, the swarming began. I requested PP again, but nothing happened. Now Emerson is being demeaned with the addition of a dreaded Islamophobia label which was cited to a partisan source. A blanket criticism was also added to the lead, unsourced of course. The hive activity is overwhelming. Anyway, I thought since you closed the IPT BLP-N last year based on (BLPGROUPS), you might be able to inject some wise advice over at Emerson. Thx in advance. Atsme☯^Consult 19:37, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi Atsme, and thanks for getting in touch. I think that Steven Emerson's remarks on Fox News were very stupid indeed. They were completely false, and they were about a city I know well. They have received an awful lot of attention here in the UK: hundreds of hours of air-time. He's been the butt of thousands of jokes. Our Prime Minister has called him "an idiot" on national television, and I fully agree. I can't think of any clearer evidence he could possibly provide that he is ignorant and islamophobic, and I see the consensus at the BLP noticeboard agrees. I think Mr Emerson's current difficulties are completely self-inflicted. I'm afraid I'm disinclined to help him here. All the best—S Marshall T/C 21:48, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Totally understood. Thank you for responding. Happy editing! Atsme☯^Consult 01:53, 23 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I asked for a review of your RFC close. The thread can be found here.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Review_of_the_Closing_for_a_WP:RFC_for_America:_Imagine_a_World_Without_Her . Casprings (talk) 00:16, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure that your closer of this thread[1] was absolutely correct? Given that 2 of the remaining users on the thread, TopGun and Nawabmalhi got topic banned and all of the sources are not supporting the results, they were in fact tagged with failed verification and one of them was a primary source. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 00:35, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Yup, I'm positive it's correct. Would you like a formal close review from independent editors?—S Marshall T/C 00:36, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Leggo : WP:AN#Reviewing RfC closure : Battle of Chawinda. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 00:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Can you discuss here instead? I don't want to make long discussions there. 25th regiment defeated other small force, not that the nation defeated other nation. Also "bloodbath" is not equivalent to "defeat" or "victory". OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 14:40, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comment and help. Mr. Marshall, could you help me? You said: Hmm, Wikipedia does discuss whether Constantine I was baptised by Sylvester I. Our page is called Symmachean forgeries, and it says it's based on a nineteenth century German source. It's possible that the page on Symmachean forgeries is, itself, a forgery but when I check other sources (such as the Catholic Encyclopaedia here), I see that the Constitutum Sylvestri is described as "apocryphal". For all I know the Catholic Encyclopaedia might also be wrong, but we as Wikipedians would want to see some evidence that's been analysed by the scholars before we'd be prepared to say that.—S Marshall T/C 22:59, 25 January 2015 (UTC): I have reason to believe just the opposite, as regards the so called "Symmachean forgeries", and the "Donation of Constantine", as well as the heretical deathbed "baptism" of Constantine. My question is: how much evidence must I present, to get my side printed on the actual page? I keep getting reverted when I post most things? Thanks. philipofBVMPhilipofBVM (talk) 04:10, 28 January 2015 (UTC) PhilipofBVM (talk) 04:10, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi Philip

  I think Wikipedia's coverage of Christianity is rather poor. Although we have large amounts of content about Christianity, a fair proportion of it was originally created by copying wholesale from public domain sources such as old editions of the Encyclopaedia Britannica or the Catholic Encyclopaedia. Since the public domain versions of those texts date back to 1911 and 1922 respectively, we're often a century behind the times.

  You asked how much evidence you have to present, and the answer is "one piece of evidence", but what I said was "evidence that's been analysed by the scholars" and the scholarly analysis is absolutely vital here. Wikipedia doesn't publish the truth. We publish what the mainstream experts think. So the evidence that you need is one (1) book, article or paper, written by a scholar (university professor, academic historian, highly-regarded theologian etc.), and published by a reputable mainstream publisher. The book or article has to say that there's a controversy about the Symmachean forgeries or the baptism of Constantine, or ideally both.

  If such a book or article exists, then this will mean that Wikipedia publishes information about the controversy including information about what both sides believe, but Wikipedia will still prefer the mainstream academic opinion (so the mainstream view will appear first in the artice and receive more attention).

  If no such book or article exists, then it's not us you need to convince, but the academics!

  I hope this helps.—S Marshall T/C 10:26, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Its nice to have a editor with fresh perspective on the article. While I did have an insight section on my user page I have since removed it. One of my major edits to the page was the creation of the Harm Reduction section. I think this is one area the medical sources defend and while it is unclear exactly how much harm reduction there is, some is better than none. I think you will find that point of view on most of the non medical editors. Just a little insight.
I think if you continue to edit the page you will see other things. I dont want to go into details. But there is a lot going on an editor new to the article may miss. Its impossible to gleam it other than to edit.
By the way great job trying to fix the lede, I have been talking on the issues it has for a long time. AlbinoFerret 20:53, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for unarchiving the discussion, but this article has a whole lot of discussion normally. Currently most of it is over at Safety of electronic cigarettes, which means it may look as if a section that is a month old isn't ready to be archived, but rest assured comments are more than daily if a subject is still relevant, these are extremely active articles. -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 17:19, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• It's relevant.—S Marshall T/C 19:58, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Can you get you opinion on that article? Do you see significant coverage from reliable sources? Valoem ^{talk contrib} 12:17, 13 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your opinion, I was wondering if you would be interested in being involved in a AfD for Mia Khalifa? I think sources suggest she is clearly notable, but currently does not pass WP:PORNBIO, but passed WP:BIO. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 22:17, 14 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi Valoem, thanks for asking me. I'm a bit worried that if I respond to these requests we might be accused of forming some kind of tag team, so I'll reluctantly decline the invitation. All the best—S Marshall T/C 22:32, 14 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, I think we see the same issues on Wikipedia, I was going for another DRV of involuntary celibacy which was my main concern I was hoping for some extensive participation, since you have been involved in that DRV, it seems impossible to win with the growing anti-NFPOV pushing I've experienced on this encyclopedia, much of which violates established guidelines. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 22:49, 14 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Things have gotten a bit more ridiculous. Which version here or here? I cannot revert him without another editor, but its is quite clear that he is ducking right now. He is hoping that as consensus turns against him an admin may see this and redirect based on the content. He even removed the word alleged in an attempt to have this article deleted immediately. I've never really seen this type of aggression before. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 21:11, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi Valoem, please don't get stressed about Wikipedia. It's not necessary. The closer almost always looks at the article history carefully and properly. Occasionally they don't, but if that happens and it leads to an unjustified deletion, then WP:DRV will fix it. Wikipedia has survived so long and become so important because generally, things work properly here. I sense that particular editor's frustration and I think he's misguided, but I think he's in good faith.—S Marshall T/C 23:09, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The issue I am having is he specified the fact that the article has too many sensational claims. Then he responds by restoring the claims? It's a bit concerning and questionable. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 01:00, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

RFC is up, comments would be appreciated. This anti-fringe agenda is too much since you participate in the past, I thought it would not be considered canvassing. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 20:03, 15 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• I would certainly have seen that and participated in the discussion without your note, so I don't think WP:CANVASS is an issue in this case.  :)—S Marshall T/C 01:54, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reply, CorporateM has listed some sources regarding why the article should remain as involuntary celibacy. An article on sexual inactivity is long over due though. A good amount of information on that article should belong in sexual inactivity, but its more of a one step at a time kind of thing. I really do not understand the extreme hostility at the RfC, someone requested I get a topic ban ridiculous indeed. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 18:50, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• You can safely disregard Tarc. He's a deletionist of the special needs variety who's never quite offensive enough to trigger Wikipedia's sorry and lame disciplinary processes, but usually offensive enough to get under your skin. Wikipedia's full of them.—S Marshall T/C 19:10, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Lulz, "special needs"? That's pretty funny coming from the towering intellect of a man who has never been able to figure out how to edit by sub-section, and leaves a generic "Remark" edit summary on just about every comment he makes. Still bitter about the Evil League of Deletionists breaking the back of the Rescue Squad like a chicken bone? Tarc (talk) 03:09, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The arbitration request concerning electronic cigarette articles has been declined by the Arbitration Committee. For the committee, Robert McClenon (talk) 03:11, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

See Arbitration request. It was the opinion of some of the arbitrators that the issue may still be resolved by the community. For the committee, Robert McClenon (talk) 14:10, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You closed a debate at Template talk:Infobox person#Religion means what? - can you provide some clarification on the following points?

1. Did you understand the consensus as being globally prescriptive, such that an editor otherwise uninvolved with an article should feel entitled to make corresponding changes throughout Wikipedia?
2. In your closure, you referred explicitly to "a one-word entry". Did you understand the scope of the debate as including, and hence applying to, cases where the faith of a person changed, where therefore several affiliations are listed, and where the change of faith is the cause of their notability?

Thanks for clarifying, Samsara 22:39, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi, Samsara and thanks for contacting me.

  I understood the consensus as applying to Template:Infobox Person. It would therefore affect all 186,000+ articles on which the template appears. I did not understand the consensus as being "prescriptive" in any sense, though. I wouldn't want someone to write a script to go through every affected article deleting the parameter! If an editor in good standing did it with all due care and thought, after discussion in difficult cases, then I would see that as a reasonable thing to do on the basis of the RfC.

  The discussion didn't bottom out what to do in cases where someone changed their faith and that was the cause of their notability. I expect the best thing to do would often be to list their most recently-declared religion. Did you have a specific article in mind?—S Marshall T/C 23:14, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for clarifying. There is a debate with an editor who has gone through a lot of articles making aforementioned changes, at Talk:Ayaan Hirsi Ali#Infobox religion. I wouldn't say "all due care" is necessarily my impression of the debate so far. From my perspective, the important detail is that Ms. Ali is mostly notable for being a Muslim-come-atheist and critic of Islam and some connected practices some of which occur under other traditional beliefs as well. The newly proposed insertion for that parameter is "None (Prev. Islam)", from a previous version reading "None (Atheist)[linebreak](Prev. Islam)". So it seems there was a prior compromise made which has now been pushed over the edge. In any case, if you want to give input, it's probably best to do it on that talk page. Thanks and regards, Samsara 00:38, 7 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please read this notification carefully:
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General sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimise disruption in controversial topic areas. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to these topics that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behaviour, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. An editor can only be sanctioned after he or she has been made aware that general sanctions are in effect. This notification is meant to inform you that sanctions are authorised in these topic areas, which you have been editing. It is only effective if it is logged here. Before continuing to edit pages in these topic areas, please familiarise yourself with the general sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

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QuackGuru (talk) 08:00, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, S Marshall. Most of your edit summaries on talkpages are simply "Remark", and I see this is a long-established habit of yours. It's not very helpful, as talkpage posts are typically remarks, all of them. For instance, I got quite frustrated searching for a particular post of yours on Talk:Electronic cigarette today. Please try to provide edit summaries that give the readers of histories some clue about what your remarks contain. Thank you. Bishonen | talk 13:32, 10 April 2015 (UTC).[reply]

• Bishonen, I'm surprised that you can look at that page and decide the highest priorities to deal with are KimDabelsteinPetersen's mistake with the tag and my use of edit summaries. I'd invite you please to look again at what's going on in the topic area.—S Marshall T/C 18:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wasting my time here, I see. Well, I often do. Bishonen | talk 18:44, 10 April 2015 (UTC).[reply]

• And that's it from you, is it?—S Marshall T/C 20:59, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

For now. I'm sorry your unhelpful edit summary usage doesn't interest you, and I'm surprised you're so up in arms about it, but yes, that's it. Bishonen | talk 22:52, 10 April 2015 (UTC).[reply]

• I didn't say it didn't interest me. Notice any change in my use of edit summaries on talk pages since your message? (OK, I stuffed up once, it's a habit.) But... yes, I'm actually very confused and upset that you think this is the most important thing for a sysop to do in relation to this article.—S Marshall T/C 22:57, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In this edit at Electronic cigarette you added hidden content to the article, naming another editor. That's not appropriate. Yes the article has had a contentious history over the past few months, but the article is now under Discretionary Sanction and an uninvolved admin, Bishonen appears to be actively monitoring, so doing stuff like that isn't either necessary or well-advised. Thanks... Zad68 21:32, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Yes, you're right: I'm allowing my extreme frustration with QuackGuru to interfere with my judgment.—S Marshall T/C 21:39, 10 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is it worth any sort of official warning or sanction process for Black Kite? I think her assumption is a symptom rather than the problem but it's a boil that needs lancing. I kind of burned out my wikieffort yesterday but am indecisive enough I wanted another "Shill"'s opinion. SPACKlick (talk) 14:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]