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The Bureaucrats' noticeboard is a place where items related to the Bureaucrats can be discussed and coordinated. Any user is welcome to leave a message or join the discussion here. Please start a new section for each topic.

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To request that your administrator status be removed, initiate a new section below.

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Requests for adminship and bureaucratship update

No current discussions. Recent RfAs, recent RfBs: (successful, unsuccessful)

It is 07:26:06 on July 7, 2024, according to the server's time and date.

 On hold Request on hold pending comment from the Arbitration Committee.

• Scott (current rights · rights management · rights log (local) · rights log (global/meta) · block log)

Please re-grant my access to the administrative toolkit, which I voluntarily requested be withdrawn in August 2014. I was not "under a cloud" when I did so.

I wish to accompany this request with a statement on the record:

My intention for requesting access to the admin toolkit is to inspect and perform maintenance on page histories - merges, splits, and moves; and to appropriately use revision deletion in any cases where I discover content that contravenes our policies and requires removing from public view. I will also be open to answering requests made of me by users to look into matters of article history or revision deletions; whether in the course of normal encyclopedic production, or investigating possible hoaxes, vandalism, or administrative malfeasance. I am fully cognizant of the requirement that sensitive revision-deleted material may not be disclosed: I never have, and I never will.

The administrative toolkit and role is long overdue being unbundled, but that's exceedingly unlikely to ever happen. Therefore I must indicate which parts of it I have no interest in, and will voluntarily refrain from using. Things that I will not do if I am re-granted access to the admin toolkit:

• Block or unblock any accounts or IP addresses
• Issue any warnings
• Close any discussions
• Participate in any discussions at WP:AN or WP:AN/I, beyond making simple requests at the latter for urgent interventions if absolutely necessary
• Perform any non-"speedy" deletions.

I shall explain the limited degree of my re-engagement with this project on my user page in due course. If verification is required that this account has not been compromised, I can be emailed through the site in the usual fashion, or reached on Twitter as @hex.

Thank you.  — Scott • talk 20:36, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from bureaucrats

The desysop does not appear to be under a cloud, I don't see a reason that re-sysop should not take place, after the 24 hour waiting period Worm^TT(talk) 08:57, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dweller, below

WJBscribe, below

This matter has been raised with the Arbitration Committee (Special:Diff/669231932); I suggest the request be placed on hold pending further comment. –xeno^talk 20:02, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Request for restoration of access to administrative toolkit (discussion)

Considering how well known Hex is for promoting off-wiki drama causing distress to many Wikimedians, and even today is attracting drama in support of Eric Barbour, I see every reason to expect a RFA where Hex/Scott's suitability for access to deleted information can be discussed by the wider community. --Fæ (talk) 14:28, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunatelt 'crats do not have authority to refuse resysopping on those grounds. If you wish to petition for a desysopping, ArbCom would be the only appropriate venue. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 14:30, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Basically, what Salvidrim! said. This would require a Crat operating outside their charter. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 14:34, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Could you direct me to the policy that forces automatic resysopping rather than allowing you to not act on a request? Thanks --Fæ (talk) 14:38, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Crats can't be compelled to act if they choose not to, but it is unlikely that all of them will refuse to act and let it die on the table. It has never happened, and would have blowback from the community that elected them to do these things. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 14:44, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That said the timescales can be extended for a reasonable period if vetting is likely to take longer. I'd be happy to suggest that happens, but "creating drama" (which can be a very good thing) isn't a reason I'd accept for such an extension. Worm^TT(talk) 14:54, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Having the ability to use trusted sysop privileges to fuel drama, or to intentionally cause personal distress to Wikipedians, off-wiki, can never be a very good thing. It is this aspect of the possible use of sysop privileges that would be examined in an RFA and that Scott would then have the opportunity to reassure everyone by setting their commitment to the mission of this project on the record. Having a Wikipedian call you a "notable Jimbotalk growth" is bad enough (quoting an off-wiki post by Scott this afternoon), but to have a trusted administrator do so when they create a discussion off-wiki in support of Eric Barbour, cannot be interpreted as collegiate behaviour. I seriously doubt that anyone being abused by being called a "growth" would feel the tools are in trustworthy and respectful hands. --Fæ (talk) 15:26, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is apparently a longstanding problem. One of the participants in this drama cited a failed policy proposal, WP:BADSITES, as vindication for his view that what goes off wiki stays off wiki and is of no relevancy whatsoever here. Like all utterly illogical trains of thought on Wikipedia, this one isn't even halfway rational. Skimming the five archives of discussions on the badsites talk page, it's very plain that this is a divisive issue and not some badge of honor that should be worn by administrators and checkusers who choose to administer or moderate websites that attack editors, or use such sites as safe harbors for behavior that would get them sanctioned here. Since "conflict of interest" is a strange and alien concept on Wikipedia, it is not surprising that people feel that way, and become livid with rage when the status quo is questioned, viewing it as an attack on their liberty or whatever. Coretheapple (talk) 19:18, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That'd be WP:RESYSOP, Fae. As long as he is who he says he is and didn't resign to evade scrutiny or avoid sanctions, the admin right should be restored. Worm^TT(talk) 14:47, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Questions - was any of this alleged misconduct taking place at the time Scott resigned his access? Were any steps being taken in relation to it at that time? WJBscribe (talk) 17:10, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Without comment on this particular request (I haven't had the time to review it in detail), but it seems that objections to procedural resysoppings have become more common lately, which will in turn make administrators less likely to give up their tools in situations when it may be prudent for whatever reason (be it account security, personal reasons, needing a break, etc.).
  The community may wish to implement a lightweight desysopping process, but shoehorning it into the resysopping process as a "gotcha" is not the way to go. –xeno^talk 15:22, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose I do not believe that Scott wants these tools for the benefit of WP, but rather to further his campaign, via his active membership at Wikipediocracy, against WP and also to persist in outing and harassing WP editors through that site. His latest one is just today [1] (posted here because public threads at WO have a habit of disappearing if the wrong public sees them)

Andy Dingley has a go at EricBarbour

Dingley has posted at the conflict of interest noticeboard that he thinks Metasonix should have a notice on it and its talk page, despite the glaring fact that EricBarbour has been blocked since 2009. Alison made this very obvious observation and removed the tag, but has run into resistance, including from notable Jimbotalk growth Coretheapple. Barrel-scraping in support of a grudge as usual.

Andy Dingley (talk) 15:49, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose I really should support, since this is precisely the kind of thing that makes non-admins cynical about admins: their life tenure, the double standard applied to their conduct, the easy-peasy way they slip slide through the rules, the sheer idiocy of referring to their super-user status as a "mop" or as "tools." Yes, if we simply apply logic, this account needs "tools" the way an elephant needs an umbrella. But let's just be rigid and give him back his super-user status (his "tools") because it is the Wikipedia Way(r) to ignore common sense. Why don't we double down on the stupidity and make him a checkuser? Coretheapple (talk) 16:13, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• I can see no reason in policy why we should deny this request and it should therefore be done at the end of the 24 hours wait period, unless another bureaucrat objects in the meantime. --Dweller (talk) 16:14, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  There's no rush - 24 hours is a guideline - nothing has to happen at the end of that period. I for one would like to allow sufficient time for members of the community to articulate their opposition so that we can consider it fully. WJBscribe (talk) 17:08, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  Wikipedians who discuss Scott's off-wiki campaign, have to be prepared to be targeted by friends of Hex off-wiki for daring to speak. Due to our policies (apart from when Arbcom sometimes choses to recognize it), off wiki behaviour is considered irrelevant to a complaint about behaviour on wiki. In response to my raising the issue here, poisonous allegations about my sex life have been posted in reply to Scott's thread, and this threatened more cyberbullying unless I cease writing here. It is not possible to separate Scott from the years long history of their off wiki toxic posts about the same Wikipedians that he is interacting with on wiki. He should be accountable for feeding banned internet trolls that act as his attack dogs by frightening others from sticking their head above the parapet. Anyone that habitually behaves this way, and is granted access privileges to our project, should expect to give a full account of their actions. The evidence is carefully kept off-wiki, just Google for the malicious crap and chumming of the waters he has chosen to post over the last few years, it's not hard to stumble across. --Fæ (talk) 19:03, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• A simple request for restoration of admin toolset resigned under non controversial circumstances. User is not subject to any sanctions and has given a detailed rationale for his request even though he is under no obligation to do so. I see no policy based reason for the bureaucrats to not proceed with the resysop. - NQ (talk) 16:33, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Not to labor it, but "oppose" and "support" have no meaning here. You can provide the Crats with information about how resysoping would be against current policy, but their actions have nothing to do with consensus, only policy. This isn't RFA version 2. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 17:09, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Question/Comment Being that there is cause for concern with returning the tools, are the burecrats here claiming "There is no current policy justification for withholding the tools" looking for something like a Writ of Mandamus/Writ of Certiorari from ArbCom/Jimbo to CYA for this new normal? Hasteur (talk) 17:57, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Hasteur: Could you explain what you mean? –xeno^talk 18:19, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Xeno: I'm getting a feeling of the Bureaucrats saying "Our hands are tied" in the face of the current policy. What I'm asking is if a motion by ArbCom (or a Jimbo proclamation) directing you to not restore the rights (or exercise discretion) in light of the circumstances. Hasteur (talk) 18:43, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If the Arbitration Committee were to issue a motion formally revoking Scott's administrative privileges, or a temporary injunction asking that the permissions not be restored for the time being as they are considering such a motion, this would be compelling. If someone does formally engage arbitration, please leave a note here and bureaucrats will decide whether to place the request on hold. –xeno^talk 18:47, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It strikes me that denying on the basis of there being a risk of a retired editor who left out of bitterness requesting the tools back for the purpose of off-site harassment is exactly the kind of thing that WP:IAR exists for. Given there is no indication Scott intends to re-engage with Wikipedia beyond his "investigations", I think any decision on re-instating the tools should be deferred at least until Scott follows through on his promise to explain his purpose. Parallel to that, if Fae et al's concerns are viewed as credible, then I would suggest this request is made under a cloud, and it should be left up to the community to decide via a fresh RFA. Resolute 19:35, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think creating a desysop procedure adhoc is an ideal course: as noted below, these concerns belong at a separate venue and are being heard at arbitration now. –xeno^talk 20:19, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Granted, and now moot given Arbcom has gotten involved, but at the same time, I don't like "our hands are tied" as an excuse when concerns of this nature are raised. There's a gap here that may warrant a policy change. Resolute 23:49, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• @Fæ, Coretheapple, and Andy Dingley: as others have noted, the resysop procedure is not a fresh review of a users' suitability for adminship. Without comment on the present case, if you feel a user requesting procedural re-adminship should not have access to the administrative tools, you should consider engaging arbitration. Further to my comment above at 18:47, bureaucrats would be compelled to revoke adminship or reject a request for re-adminship if the committee were to issue a motion or engage desysop procedures. –xeno^talk 19:43, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There are a good many admins at WP who deserve a good desysopping, but ArbCom has a poor record of achieving anything useful in that direction.

PS - The Wikipediocracy thread has, as predicted, now been hidden. Still, there are plenty of WO-active admins left who can see it. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:55, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Bureaucrats are not an investigative or disciplinary body. –xeno^talk 20:03, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Rather amusing that a forum that routinely bitches about things being done in secrecy frequently lacks transparency itself. Resolute 23:51, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Resolute: I'd prefer that we focus on the actual matter at hand and keep comments not directly related to it to a minimum. --(ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp 00:10, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Request for restoration of access to administrative toolkit (request for hold)

• ArbCom have received private communication regarding this request and are considering it along with comments made on this thread. We would appreciate it if the 'crats would hold off on actioning this request for now until. Hopefully we'll get back to in less than 2 days, but we are busy at present so that is not a promise (sorry). Thryduulf (talk) 20:01, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  I've suggested it be placed on hold pending additional comment; if you think a formal comment will take more than 24-48 hours, please consider issuing a temporary injunction. (less relevant as user indicated they do not mind the delay) –xeno^talk 20:08, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  Seconded. --Dweller (talk) 20:12, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  Agreed Worm^TT(talk) 20:32, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  I hope I'm not out of line in suggesting that you close this discussion in the meantime. The evil voodoo drama spirits seem to be running wild through the Wikipedia neighborhood of the interwebs today. --SB_Johnny | ^talk✌ 20:38, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  My concern with that is that Thryduulf indicated the committee was considering "comments made on the thread"; suspending the thread would prevent further community comments (and without a formal case filing, it wouldn't be entirely clear where such comments should be made). There are also outstanding questions that would have bearing on the processing of the request if the committee declines to take any action. –xeno^talk 20:45, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Noted. If it looks like it's going to take us more than 48 hours we'll issue a temporary injunction, but based on discussion so far it will be evening US time before we are in a position to know that. Thryduulf (talk) 20:44, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. –xeno^talk 20:45, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• I well understand that the Arbitration Committee is busy with more pressing matters. I'm in no hurry with this request and am available for a drama-free chat by email at any time that suits.  — Scott • talk 20:57, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • While I understand that ArbCom intervention might be needed to put this request on hold from a "bureaucratic" point of view, it would also probably raise the drama level. Depending on the outcome, that might happen anyway (indeed, unfortunately, it's more likely than not to happen no matter how this is ultimately handled) ... but perhaps Scott's statement that he's in no hurry could be considered as his consenting to a temporary delay, thus eliminating the need for a formal ArbCom action at this early stage. (Noting that I'm not commenting on the merits of the request at all.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:43, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks, NYB. I'm absolutely happy for a delay to this process, of whatever duration.  — Scott • talk 22:46, 29 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Sensible as always. Thanks for your patience, Scott - we will hold for comment. –xeno^talk 13:55, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Request for restoration of access to administrative toolkit (break)

• Comment I have had no dealings with User:Scott that I recall, and as far as his involvement in 'pediocracy goes his essay/blog post on Liquid Threads is on its face a good summary of what not to do. Nonetheless it it a matter for consternation when an editor who has "flounced", instead of coming back to the project to edit comes back to look at deleted revisions - specifically saying "I will also be open to answering requests made of me by users to look into matters of article history or revision deletions".

It seems to me that this sets alarum bells off, especially in the context of 'pediaocracy, who, while they claim to have moved forward from Wikipedia Review, is still an essentially "bash Wikipedia" and specifically "bash [other] Wikipedains" club.

It would perhaps be useful to know what specific revision deletions User:Scott wants to look into, and for which users.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 12:40, 30 June 2015 (UTC).[reply]

You've completely misread my statement of purpose. Perhaps it was ambiguous - the answer to your question is none. Everything I mentioned is part of the standard admin toolkit, of which I only find several components worthwhile. Regards.  — Scott • talk 13:26, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

While I am sympathetic to the observations made by Rich, which lead to the obvious query, I am strongly opposed to asking such questions. I realize the question has been asked and answered so this may sound like locking the barn door, but one of the things that concerns me about our organizational structure is the imbalance of power. My main concerns arise when an admin blocks and editor and the editor must find the right words to become unblocked. I think abuse is extremely rare but I want to make sure it is closer to nonexistent. On rare occasions, I have seen hints that the blocky must make statements unrelated to the original reason for blocking in order to be considered for unblocking. While understandable that's an abuse of power. I don't want us to fall into the same trap here. We've established a policy that if an admin voluntarily gives up tools not under a cloud they simply have to ask for them back. We do not get to say "now that you don't have the tools and you want them back is a few questions I'd like answered and if you don't answer them satisfactorily you might not get the tools back". I get that there might be special circumstances in this situation and I'll let ARBCOM investigate those off-camera. However, should there be a declination to return the tools, it had better be for an extremely strong reason and not simply that someone is unhappy with something Scott has done and now have a good chance to keep him from getting back the tools. On a related point, I do want to thank Scott for agreeing to a delay. ARBCOM does have quite a number of things on their plate, and I am sure that handling this on an emergency basis would not be easy. Giving them the time to sort this out on a more relaxed timeframe helps everyone.--S Philbrick(Talk) 14:42, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]