Talk:Timeline of national flags: Difference between revisions

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For the purposes of Accuracy I added the flag of the Byzantine empire to the before section for Greece and the the Balkans. Would like to add it to Turkey as well but it appears I have made a mess of the Europe Table adding it to it. If anyone knows how to fix it I would be very gratefully if you could.

330

I don't believe that the Byzantine flag would be appropriate given the time frame of the time line is from the 17th century onward, a time where the Roman Empire (Byzantine) had long since become an extinct state (in 1453, the Fall of Constantinople). Including that flag would require a reworking of the present timescale used on this page.

On a related note, there never was a real Roman/Byzantine flag. The Byzantines didn't engage in same customs of heraldry as seen Kingdoms in Western Europe. For most of the Byzantine's history, the banner used was usually the personal banner of the ruling family of the time. The Tetragrammic cross (the image you intended to use), was the closest thing to a national flag, but its frequency varied throughout the empire's (although it was used a lot in the last two centuries of its existence). With the time line in mind, it also seems prudent to note that the 330 design would be less appropriate, with this design from the 14th century being more friendly to the overall time line; as seen here. Leventio (talk) 04:56, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The time frame selected (since 17th century) reflects Europe and West constitutions of national states. For almost the rest of the world this viewpoint has no use. The Turkish state established in 1920. The flag is in official use since 1844.By this time, the Greek state was already established (1821) and a Greek flag existed. Moreover the Greek flag was in use while the Ottoman official flag not existed! The star and crescent motive as a flag theme was a modern (re)invention of the time. So why use this unofficial military flag for 1453? Is this a page about flags or about empires domination timeline?--Vardos (talk) 08:02, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What constitutes a "sovereign state"? Kaliningrad and Greenland are now listed, but they're parts of other nations (Russia and Denmark). Somaliland was removed from this list, yet it is de facto a sovereign nation with its own history; the Somaliland government controls its own territory (even though no other nation recognizes this state). The flag of Somaliland flies over its capital, Hergesia. The same can be said for Northern Cyprus... Shouldn't de facto states be included in this list?

I believe the table is following the Gallery of sovereign-state flags flags, which is the hyperlinked from the word sovereign state in the article. This would mean that Somaliland should not have been removed from the list. However, Kaliningrad and Greenland are not sovereign states. Greenland while being an autonomous country, is not a sovereign nation as it does not have supreme, independent authority over a territory (Denmark still controls it's foreign affairs and defence), in many ways it is like the Special Administered Regions of China (Hong Kong and Macau). I don't know how Kaliningrad would even be slightly applicable to this however as it is a fully federated member of the Russian Federation, despite being separated from the rest of the country. CuffX (talk) 09:03, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

De facto states are not sovereign nations. 90.184.241.194 (talk) 13:13, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If international recognition is a criteria for inclusion (or exclusion in the case of South Ossetia and Northern Cyprus), then Taiwan as well as the PRC and others would have to be removed from the list, since they only have partial recognition. One "sovereign" entity is the Sovereign Military Order of Malta - a "de jure" state, but not "de facto". Should that entity be included? There appears to be no clear description of a "sovereign state" - I think we have to use judgement. Kaliningrad and Greenland were easy, but other entities shouldn't be taken off the list due to lack of recognition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Snd3054 (talk • contribs) 21:16, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What evidence is there that the Taegeuk (Yin-yang+trigrams) flag was in use before 1882? -- AnonMoos (talk) 23:03, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone add Greece?
1453
1769
1828
1833
1862
1967
1970
1975
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.67.215.217 (talk) 16:49, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Greece has been added 90.184.241.194 (talk) 11:29, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please fill and delete once they have been added 90.184.241.194 (talk) 11:42, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Andorra, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cyprus, Hungary, Malta and Malaysia, Singapore, Sri Lanka removed from table as they were added in article. (talk) 09:23, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Removed Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Northern Cyprus, South Ossetia as they are not sovereign states 90.184.241.194 (talk) 13:08, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also removed Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic and Palestine 90.184.241.194 (talk) 13:10, 9 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Consider removing Kosovo on the same reason as Abkhazia and South Ossetia since they all are partially recongnized states 109.108.38.129 (talk) 10:29, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've added Nicaragua in the article. --Dэя-Бøяg 14:51, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The removal of Tranistria should be considered for it is only a partially recognized state, such as South Ossetia, etc. I also agree with the removal of Kosovo for the same reason. -Hanson

I have seen, surprised, that we have changed our flag (i'm italian) between 2003 and 2006. I remember that proposal of the government to change the green ( vs ), but i remember it was largely rejected and the proposal taken as a (silly) joke. Nobody in Italy has changed the flag, neither on town halls or for football fans. I know about this change, as official, only here. But i'm not sure. It could be an official law abolished in 2006 but nobody in Italy has noted this "change". I'll find for references. --95.234.191.42 (talk) 03:29, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, what? Do we have an RS for this? Also, no offence, but sometimes the government in Italy gives me a headache. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 06:29, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

thanks --ClungeLover69 (talk) 21:30, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a source for the 2003 colors: [1]. Illegitimate Barrister 00:05, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

India includes the flags it flew during its british colonial holding, should the Portuguese india flags be there too? after all the portuguese were there first and last, the longest there. Its what is correct. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 22:51, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why use the flag of the New Spain in every country of South America? This is a mistake, is more, the half of the United States really form part of this, but not the southern of america. Bolivia in the independence days form part de Argentina, Cornelio Saavedra, the first "president" for Argentina, born in Chuquisaca, now in Bolivia, and known this region like Upper Peru.

168.226.217.166 (talk) 13:46, 1 February 2012 (UTC)Hernán168.226.217.166 (talk) 13:46, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

One of the earlier flags for the US was never an official flag, and should not be shown in the timeline. I also realized that the flags used during the civil war are not shown. -Hanson

No nations ever cosidered the confederacy a independant state. If it was put on, all rebellions would need to be put on. It shouldn't be on here.

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I'm very much opposed to the inclusion of the Nazi flag in the timeline of countries like Belgium, the Netherlands. Those countries were never officially part of Nazi Germany. They were only occupied by it.--Wester (talk) 20:01, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with wester about this issue but on the other hand I realized that the Nazi flag was never shown in the Japan timeline. Japan was Nazi during WWII. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.54.187.116 (talk) 05:13, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, just wow. Japan was an ally of Nazi Germany in World War II, not a part of it. Its like saying that Russia was apart of Great Britain, because they were allies during the war. As for the Nazi flag on occupied European territories, I'm assuming its based on the fact that many of them were either Reichskommissariat or Nazi Military Administration, all of which flew the swastika as its flag. Leventio (talk) 12:25, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Good point about the Nazi flags - most of the countries occupied by Nazi Germany continued to fly national flags, alongside that of the occupier. Even "Bohemia and Moravia" (Czech Republic), which was annexed to Germany as a "protectorate", had a distinctive flag. I think only Poland (the so-called "General Government") was forbidden from displaying any trace of national identity, including a flag. Also, Luxembourg was annexed to Germany and therefore was not permitted to fly its flag. I agree the swastika could be removed from most European countries. snd3054 18:14, 6 August 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snd3054 (talk • contribs)

Why does this page show a Nazi flag for all of the countries that the Germans conquered except for France? Be consistant, either show it for all or none. Maybe this flag should show for France during the early 1940s? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:VichyFlag.svg&page=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.252.45.224 (talk) 03:49, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Wester. I noticed this when looking for earlies flags of the Scandinavian countries. Neither Norway nor Denmark used the swastika flag as a national flag during the occupation. Even though the German occupation was and still is an important part of these countries' history, it was never a part of the history of their national flags--Which is what I feel this page should be about. 80.203.32.9 (talk) 11:38, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As a compromise, one could split the timeline for a Nazi-occupied country in half, using both the flag of the occupied country and the Nazi flag. The U.S. timeline already does for the CSA. Illegitimate Barrister 23:37, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Has the Kiribati flag actually changed in 2005 ? On the timeline, the 1979 and 2005 flags link to the same image... Same thing for Samoa and Fiji actually ! Maimai009 19:33, 7 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted the incorrect information about Fiji, Kiribati and Samoa. 87.199.9.40 (talk) 15:27, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The timeline of the Portuguese flag is wrong. Why does it start only on 1667? The United States had a flag before Portugal did!? It makes no sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Portugal — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.64.30.86 (talk) 00:05, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This timeline starts with flags that were in use as of 1700. The first Portuguese flag shown dates from 1667 and was in use until 1707. There were a number of previous flags that are not shown on this timeline (as is true for other countries, e.g. France). The "American" flag is actually the British flag that dates from 1606 - since (of course) the United States did not exist as a separate nation at the time. HappyJake (talk) 20:10, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I notice on the Ghana timeline is shows the flag of the Union of African States as the Ghanaian national flag from 1961 to 1964. This is wrong - the 1957 flag was in use for Ghana during this time. The UAS was a loose community of states, not a nation - and as such showing this as the Ghanaian flag is equivalent to showing the flag of the Commonwealth for Canada, or the flag of the European Union for France. Grutness...wha? 07:05, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic flag timeline doesnt fit in the graphic (from 1931 onwards). Could anyone solve this problem?. Regards, --HCPUNXKID (talk) 17:08, 9 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Should be correct now. SiBr₄ ⚑ 19:09, 9 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks!--HCPUNXKID (talk) 01:42, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The table now displays a new cell for Monaco for 2013, but the new flag appears to be exactly the same as the previous one (it's even linked to the same file). Anyone know what's going on? GeoEvan (talk) 18:47, 7 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, can't find any reference for it, I believe nothing changed. Can anyone delete it, until someone can provide source? -JAck — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.144.156.137 (talk) 21:48, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. GeoEvan (talk) 03:34, 10 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Plz add the flag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Empire_of_Brazil_(1870-1889).svg Leosls (talk) 19:54, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If occupied wartime territories are represented by an enemy flag (e.g. the CSA for the U.S. in the American Civil War, Nazi Germany for Poland during World War II), should the British flag be used to represent U.S. territory held by the U.K. during the War of 1812? Likewise with Imperial Japan in World War II? Illegitimate Barrister 23:30, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Should the flags of Soviet Republics not be included in the timeline of the 15 former SSRs? Although they were part of the Soviet Union and the flags weren't truly "national", they were unique to each republic, and are similar in status to colonial flags. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snd3054 (talk • contribs) 04:09, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Moved from User talk:SiBr₄

 – SiBr₄ (talk) 15:58, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, regarding the flags of the Kazakh and Kyrgyz SSRs, you removed them because they were not "national flags". I had added them because other Soviet Republic flags are currently included (e.g. Estonian SSR). As to the status of SSR flags, are they not similar to the colonial flags in the various timelines? Although they didn't represent independent states, they were distinct flags used in their territories, and are part of the heritage of those nations. For example, the Seychelles timeline shows a British colonial flag; the Union Flag isn't the only flag shown prior to independence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snd3054 (talk • contribs) 01:00, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I did not know that most other former Soviet states in the list already used the respective SSR flags instead of the federal one. I disagree that they're similar in status to colonies: by definition colonies are autonomous entities that aren't fully integrated into the controlling state, and are therefore often considered separate national entities (which I don't fully endorse either), unlike federal country subdivisions. Is there any difference between the SSRs and e.g. the U.S. or German states, which obviously have distinct flags as well, other than that most SSRs correspond to currently independent states? SiBr₄ (talk) 15:58, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If a US state (or Canadian province, or German Länder...) one day became independent, wouldn't the entry for the new nation's flag timeline show previous flags associated with that political entity, including past state or provincial flags? The SSR flags are part of the heritage of the 15 former Soviet republics. In some cases, they've directly influenced the current national flag (e.g. Belarus and Tajikistan). The same applies to the former Yugoslav republics that are now independent states. If the article is meant to capture the history of a nation's flags, I don't see the harm if the timeline included pre-independence flags. But I'll leave it to others to make the call. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snd3054 (talk • contribs) 03:16, 14 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"If the article is meant to capture the history of a nation's flags (...)" I hadn't interpreted the article's subject that way. The title implies that each year should only list then-national flags (i.e. flags of entities that were "nations" in that year, duplicated for each current state that was part of it), as opposed to historical flags associated with current states (regardless of former status). The lead seems to support the latter, however. I don't have a strong preference for either, as long as the article's scope is clear and consistently applied. If possible we could also display national and regional flags together, showing both that a current country was a part (or colony) of another state and that it had its own flag.

Relatedly, the article currently doesn't distinguish between national flags, flags of regions within larger states, and flags of larger states themselves. I think some text needs to be added to each cell that gives the name of the entity in question and clarifies what exactly the displayed flag represented, either displayed or as image mouseover. Links to the former entities' articles would also be helpful. SiBr₄ (talk) 17:34, 14 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I like the suggestions for clarifying the article; unfortunately I don't have the skills to make anything other than minor changes. In the meantime, would you object if I added back the flags of the Kirgiz and Kazakh SSRs? If for no other reason, their timelines would be consistent with other Soviet (and Yugoslav) republic timelines. If you disagree, no problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snd3054 (talk • contribs) 19:51, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There is now a /Draft subpage for trying out any proposed changes. After trying I imagined a description in every cell would get rather busy, so the current version includes text for non-independent entities and larger states (for the first few countries at least). The years link to relevant articles.

I have no problem with reinstating the SSR flags in the real article. SiBr₄ (talk) 19:49, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good - hyperlinking the year to the relevant article is a great idea. I imagine redoing the entire article would take a fair amount of time though. I'll add the SSR flags back, and a few additional colonial flags for Caribbean nations. snd3054 19:14, 24 October 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snd3054 (talk • contribs)

Shouldn't overseas territories be included somewhere in this list?. It would be valuable information to see the change is these territories also regardless of their status. The timeline of territories such as Bermuda, Puerto rico, Virgin islands (US and UK), Guam, Pitcairn Island, Cayman islands and so on.. There are many and all have flag timelines. If anyone can gather the information. Thank you. Puertorico1 (talk)

Delete Kosovo ,Republic of China and SADR or add Abkhazia, South Ossetia and North Cyprus (maybe also Azad Kashmir - Pakistan officially recognizes it as an independent state). They have equal status as partially recognized states. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.128.56.222 (talk) 10:34, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Afghanistan changed its flag in 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Afghanistan#/media/File:Flag_of_Afghanistan_(2004-2013).svg

This is the 2004-2013 version.

A bit of an update, please? 8.40.151.110 (talk) 01:14, 10 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline of "Kosovo" should look like this: 2008-  Kosovo

No it should not, as many other nations, Kosovo had another status before it's independence (like autonomous province of Serbia etc.) --MateoKatanaCRO (talk) 16:30, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Flag changed yesterday. 8.40.151.110 (talk) 18:43, 7 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And I just did it. 8.40.151.110 (talk) 23:46, 8 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The partition was ended in 1990 yet. Despite the field of the flag of the GDR goes to 1996. 2003:E0:4728:1D00:8057:725D:BC20:ACFB (talk) 15:15, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Can someone please add Palestine? It is recognized by 138 countries (Kosovo, for instance, is recognized by 98 countries and is included on this list). Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NoWikiNoLife (talk • contribs) 08:27, 27 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Hello. Someone has added proposals that were made in the past for the flags as if they were the actual flags of the states, such as adding some of the flag proposals of the New Zealand flag referendum, or the Fiji flag referendum. I propose all of these added proposals be removed as they can misinform potential readers. Germenfer (talk) 16:34, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Support It's not at all clear that they were just proposals. Makes it look like the countries adopted the flags for a year then reverted back. Del_Usion23 (talk) 18:50, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I checked and from the proposals, they were ither unofficial, or if they were indeed part of flag-change referendums they were voted out or the flag change did not occur at all. For example, in the Fiji referendum in 2016, the Prime Minister eventually decided not to change the flag. In the New Zealand referendums, the people decided not to change their flag to the newly proposed one, etc. I believe that the proposals must be removed. Germenfer (talk) 14:21, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Support I am not sure if we need a separate article for those proposed flags but that will be nice if that article exists. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 01:02, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I believe that we should create a separate article maybe titled "National Flag Proposals" or "List of National Flag Proposals" (started it in my sandbox) where the proposals to change the flag of certain nations are classified by nation and date. Germenfer (talk) 14:21, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The separate article has been created: "List of National Flag Proposals". I suggest the proposals are now removed from the timeline. Germenfer (talk) 16:03, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• It seems no matter how much we try removing the proposals, there is one unregistered individual heavily guarding this page and reverting any change made to remove proposed unofficial flags. That's not even mentioning their strange emotional reactions to any revision. There are far too many unofficial flags added to this article. I've tried directing them to the talk page to prevent this turning into a pointless edit war, but they've ignored that. I would personally advise protecting this page for the time being. 147.147.150.33 (talk) 20:30, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• New Zealand silver fern, and Iraq 2007 proposal flag also exists
  • Yes, they exist, but they're not official flags that were used by the country. The purpose of this page is to timeline the history of the national flags. New Zealand never made the Silver Fern flags their official flags during the referendum campaign, nor did Iraq make those proposals their official flags. These are more appropriate for the list of national flag proposals article. As well as this, the 51 star flag has been added here repeatedly with the idea that it will be made the flag of the U.S. in the future. Not only is it an unofficial flag (literally, the work of an artist on Wikipedia) but even if it was an official U.S. government approved flag, merely adding it goes against WP:CRYSTALBALL. 147.147.150.33 (talk) 12:06, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

see List of national flag proposals.

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Decades / countries 80.234.77.44 (talk) 07:57, 31 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]