Talk:List of reported UFO sightings: Difference between revisions

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Arequipa UFO incident was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 28 December 2017 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into List of reported UFO sightings. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

This article has been mentioned by a media organization: Dave Stopera (2014-10-22). "21 Wikipedia Pages That Will Make It Impossible For You To Sleep". BuzzFeed. Retrieved 2014-10-22.

I have reverted a recently-added entry for an alleged 1980 UFO incident in South Korea, a seemingly good-faith contribution from the new editor User:ProfGeorge Campbell. Firstly, because the cited sources are in Korean, it is impossible (at least for me) to determine if they are independent and reliable, per WP:FRIND. Secondly, independent of language one of the sources is a YouTube video which, per WP:RSPS, is not reliable and should not be used. Please restore the content if verifiable, reliable, independent, non-fringe sources can be found. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 17:22, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I summed and Arred about removal, but did not for precisely the same reason. I could not read the sources, so had no idea if they were RS or not. We do not reject ources just because they are not in English.Slatersteven (talk) 17:26, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comment. Just to be clear, I did not remove the content because the supporting sources were not in English, but rather because their reliability (outside the non-RS YouTube) could not be objectively affirmed. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 18:10, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Or rejected, so it might have been better to raise the issue as rsn.Slatersteven (talk) 18:15, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Translation. Korean newspaper JoongAng Ilbo retelling a story aired on a Korean TV show that claims a UFO was seen in 1980. The last couple paragraphs seem to be trying to tie this stuff in with Roswell (?) and a vague Korean War era UFO story involving soldiers seeing something in the sky and then being sick. Could be a nominally reliable source, but fails WP:EXTRAORDINARY. - LuckyLouie (talk) 20:32, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the leg work. JoongAng Ilbo does seem to be generally reliable. Along with your points, I note that the translated article refers to Roswell as "a known UFO crash" (emphasis mine), so author/editorial credulity seems an issue. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 15:00, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, This is original editor User:ProfGeorge Campbell of new S.K UFO incident. First I'm Sorry for uploading the S.K incident without any explanation of reliable source. Maybe I should explain everything to explain the question, I hope you understand me even if the writing is a little long. I'll try my best to explain.

1. The Original Source The original source is JTBC's Lee Kyu-yeon's Spotlight , It's Investigative journalism shows as 60 Minutes. https://tv.jtbc.joins.com/replay/pr10010365/pm10030344/ep10029666/view

The actual broadcast was broadcast on TV in 2016 and a replay is uploaded on the homepage.

2. Why does the show want to relate the S.Korean UFO sightings to Roswell?

The show call this Korean Sight incidnet as ' the Korean version of Roswell' . but S.K incident, it wasn't even a UFO crash, i think they just name it because the show cover the most famous Rosewell incident at the very first part of the show and then they cover the S.K reported UFO sighting by pilots right after it.

That is why i wrote it down the name as 'the 1980 Korean UFO  incident' .If anyone think there are better name for this incident like 'Team Spirit UFO incident' anything. Please feel free to edit there are no offical name of this incident and the end of the testimony This show also call it as "Team Spirit incident"  .

3.Why did i used the Source as Youtube which is not a proper to the Wikipeida.

There is an original video that lasts about 50 minutes on the broadcasting station's website as i write mentioend and linked. https://tv.jtbc.joins.com/replay/pr10010365/pm10030344/ep10029666/view

However, you have to sign up and pay 1 dollar to watch,  so I just linked the source of JoongAng Ilbo, JTBC YouTube Channel which anyone can read and  watch for free. Technically same source but you can access and watch it for free.

Most of what I wrote in the S.K incident part is specific testimony from Air Force pilots on JTBC broadcast which is 7:30(youtube timestamp) ~ 16:30 from youtube source , so I will write down the translated subtitles with (time) and link below. Please check the source video with my poor eng sub. I hope i can help you to determine whether it is reliable enough to be uploaded in the UFO Insight list based on the pilot's testimony and broadcasting contents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfuKqGcE_II

Time stamp start at (7:30) Narration(7:30) : From now on, we are tracking the Korean version of Roswell Incident.

[subtitle : Daegu Air Force Base] Narration (7:35) : 11th Combat Squadron in Daegu

Narration(7:40) Two phantom aircraft are flying over the sky.

Narration : a squadron of two pilots and co-pilots.

Narration(7:50) : Four people were flying from Daegu to Gangneung.

They saw a suspicious light at 15,000 feet.

A mysterious aircraft moving between the stars.

Narration(8:00):  we Meet the Air Force pilot who witnessed the mysterious creature at that time in person.

After several persuasion, he accepted the interview.

[Lim Byung-sun, Age 79 (in 2016), Air Force (reserve)Major general]

Lim (8:10): (Interview) I was going to say no. Come to think of it. You know, interviews, in a way, I think it's one of my duties.

Narration (8:20) : He's a reserve officer of airforce, Major Genaral.

General Lim Byung-sun (showing rank Leader and Unit Citation, medal decoration certificate from President Chun Doo-hwan ) Pilots Opening the Phantom Age

Narration (8:30) : This is a living witness of our Air Force who once sank a NK spy ship. Around the time he saw a mysterious object,

Narration (8:40): Not long after the Coup d'état of December Twelfth and Assassination of Park Chung-hee.

A few months before the Gwangju Democratization Movement,

Narration (8:50): it was a truly turbulent time. he witness an unforgettable moment.

Lim Byeong-sun [Major general] (8:56) : At that time, I was on a Team Spirit ( Joint military training exercise of United States Forces Korea and the Military of South Korea)

Lim (9:01) :  An emergency deployment order has been issued for training purposes. (We) took off in 8 min and we were heading towards Gangneung. On a dark night,

Narration (9:10) :  They found a red, blue-colored, mysterious flying object.

Lim (9:18): To the Groung Control "In front of us, an unidentified object keeps moving." "They're coming our way."So I reported it, and he told me to track it down.

Reporter (9:28): Who gave the order to track it down?

Lim (9:30): The operations controller on the ground gave us instructions.

Narration (9:33) :[Showing UFO video captured  in Uijeongbu ]It must have been similar to what Uijeongbu actually captured.

Narration(9:40): General Lim receives an official order from the Operations Controller and tracks the object. As soon as they tries to catch up, the object turns around and move toward Pohang.

Lim(9:50) :  made a turn, 180 degrees back.

Narration: drawing with abnormal trajectories. A typical characteristic of an UFO . When they approach Pohang, it Block their way like a Car pulling out.

Lim(10:06): UFO stood there for a second and went up the vertical. It climbed vertically and went up 33,000 feet.

Reporter(10:15): how much time does it take to went up

Lim(10:16): Time.. It only take a few seconds.

Narration (10:20) : It rose vertically at a high speed like this video. Was it really ufo? (10:28): Two people at 25,000 feet follow the object to the end.

Lim(10:37): when we went up and it stopped at 33,000 feet. Stoped. Reporter(10:38):Again

Lim(10:40): So We watched it closely from there.

reporter: While trunig around Lim: yeah, truning around

Lim(10:45): Yes, and I instructed Colonel Lee Seung-bae to go up and observe the objects.

Reporter(10:54): Is it that far? 200m Lim(10:56): There where the letter "Korea" is written . That's about it. Reporter: The missile projectile model over there. Lim: yes yes Reporter: That's how close you were. Lim: yeah yeah

Narration(11:03): The distance is only 200 meters.  above and next to the UFO and they observes it.

Reporter(11:10): What was the shape and size?

Lim(11:12): It's three times as big as a phantom.

Narration(11:18): About 36 meters is about 10 stories high in the apartment.

Narration(11:23): What was the shape?

Lim(11:25): It's a disk. It's round. And if you look from the side, it looks like this. The unique thing is, you know, the center. Fireworks were blowing very hard up and down.

Narration(11:40): What's surprising is that the fuel injection system spews  from center to top  and bottom. he still vividly remember it.

Lim(11:47): you know the Oxy-fuel welding. Reporter:  (yes yes) Lim: That's exactly the same the color of the oxygen welding.

Narration(11:55): It's stronger and more intense than the color of this video.

Reporter(12:00): What happens next after obesrvation for 10 minutes?

Lim(12:06): It takes a lot of fuel for a fighter to fly at 33,000 feet in a small radius.

Narration(12:16): they've considered a warning Shot, but they had to withdraw because they could run out of fuel. At the same time, he kept an eye on the Flying disc throguh the rear-view mirror. Flying disk go out towards East Sea side. 40 minutes of UFO chase, Now we verify the memory of the day.

Narration(12:38): First, I found Daegu Air Base where General Lim served . Unfortunately, the 151st Battalion is inactivated anymore. We checked the article to see if there was Team Spirit military training excercise at the time of the article. Training name is called Team Spirit 80.

The Korea-U.S. Joint training took place for 51 days.

Narration (13:00) : What surprised him when he tracked it was the unidentified object's performance.

Neither fighter radar nor ground radar could not capture the Flying saucer.

Narration (13:10) : Is it possible? At the time of the sighting, in March 1980, the first combat use of purpose-designed stealth aircraft was in 1989,  Then Was that time technology possible to stop after 10,000 feet of vertical rise?

Jin Won-jin  Professor / Far East University, Aviation Maintenance (13:33) There are still no aircraft with propulsion both up and down , and The time he witness was the 1980.  I don't think there were any aircraft like that in the 1980s .

Narration (13:47)��: Colonel Lee Seung-bae, who controlled the Phantom in the same squadron with the General Lim, was able to contact with us.

Lee Seung-bae / KoreanAirforce Reserved Colonel (13:55): Not only shock, but even now, it's unforgettable, but I can proudly say it (UFO story). Frankly

Just keep that in mind. you got to know that there's definitely UFO exist in the world.

(14:06)The Fact that four fighter pilots tracked it down, you personally acknowledge it .

General Lim, who was ordered to launch during the official military operation, naturally he reported the record to the higher unit (Military hierarchy).

Narration (14:25) : Colonel Park Oh-sang, who was in charge of Military intelligence at the time, wrote a report. Does he still remember it?

Park Oh-sang /Air Force Reserve Colonel (14:34) :

ah, yeah, I got the report and it was reported through the Line of Report (chain of command). The content of the report is what I , General Lim, and Colonel Lee Seung-bae said. that is all.

Park Oh-sang (14:48) : I personally trust becasue the active the pilot witnessed it in person. There's a procedure, so it  reported to the higher Unit then to the Intelligence agency then i don't konw show it was handled.

Narration  (15:00) :Afterwards, General Lim heard the Air Force headquarters' opinion on the sighting of the mysterious aircraft.

Lim(15:08): The Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence called me directly from Air Force Headquarters. "I've heard the operations report, but the Air Force is not capable of analyzing it." "So know that, there will be no reply to you. you just know that. "

Narrtaion(15:23) : Afterwards, he writes a report with Lt. Col. Wordsworth of the U.S. Air Force, whom he was acquainted with. And he sending this report to the U.S. Air Force.

After 15 days, he got a Call from U.S Airforce.

Lim(15:35):  "We've got over 500 such reports." And the second time he've said, "Maybe UFO."

Narration (15:43) : "Maybe UFO". it give us goose bumps.

Narration: Does anyone in the Air Force headquarters has any memories of the day?

Air Force Headquarters airman (15:52): Even if one just have joined in 36 years ago, they would be all retired now, so we can't tell you anything.

Narration(16:03):The same goes for the requests for information disclosure. [Written Reply]This is to inform you that the information does not exist.

Narration(16:10) : We have tracked down the Daegu Team Spirit UFO Incident. At least four people witnessed at the same time, tracked down the flying saucer through the operational instructions, confirmed by U.S Airforce. Even the witnesses were all elite military officers.  The 40-minute UFO incident on the night of March 31, 80 was a meaningful event. Usually, the sightings of pilots with expertise and credibility have a special value. we heard another witness from another active pilot. (And another testimoney goes on)

That's it.

When it was on the TV (2016) they introduce all the airforce offical on subtitle as "Reserve officers" but it's 2021 now so i assume that they are all (ret.) retired now.

4. The Reason i upload this incident and deserve to be on the UFO list

i think that the reliability of military officers rather than the reliability of the broadcasting station was enough to be on the list. a key part of the UFO broadcast was testimony

I uploaded it because I thought the specific testimony of various military officers who revealed both their faces and identities was reliable.

I don't think General Lim Byung-sun, who sank the spy ship and even received former President Chun Doo-hwan's medal, lies after his discharge as a general.

The same goes for Colonel (ret.) Park O-sang, who was in charge of intelligence, and Colonel (ret.) Lee Seung-bae, who flew on the plane with The General Lim Byung-sun. general and colonel revealed their names and class status and appeared on the broadcast. To me This was impressive.

If anyone here agree to re-upload this incident, you can always modify the name of the case or anything to modify. I'm just a messenger of testimony. thank you for reading all this long. ProfGeorge Campbell (talk) 10:29, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am unsure this youtube video is an RS, what TV channel broadcast it?Slatersteven (talk) 10:32, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The broadcast station called JTBC. The original source is Lee Kyu-yeon's Spotlight show ProfGeorge Campbell (talk) 10:43, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The JoongAng Ilbo newspaper and the Spotlight TV show/JTBC are both owned by JoongAng Holdings Ltd., so it makes sense that one is publicizing the other. I don't see any WP:INDY coverage of this outside the JoongAng Holdings Ltd. bubble. - LuckyLouie (talk) 17:08, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I found a different source that cover the Same story of 1980 Team spirit UFO. And this one is even before the previous JTBC Broadcasting. http://monthly.chosun.com/client/news/viw.asp?ctcd=&nNewsNumb=201412100040 Source date is December 2014. The source is the monthly Wolgan Chosun which the newspaper company The Chosun Ilbo publish monthly. ProfGeorge Campbell (talk) 05:43, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There was an incident (perhaps incidents) at Loring AFB in 1975. There are a couple videos out there on it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.61.218.19 (talk) 04:42, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Any RS report this?Slatersteven (talk) 11:30, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There will soon, hopefully be a collection of sightings listed on the sightings in us page. Read the history of said page under an entry signed by me, now being redone. Chantern15 (talk) 15:35, 23 October 2021 (UTC)chantern15[reply]

Hi, Is Center for UFO Studies considered a reliable source? CUFOS is an " international group of scientists, academics, investigators, and volunteers", and has a huge database of UFO cases. Thanks, Yann (talk) 15:41, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Might be best to ask at wP:rsn. Slatersteven (talk) 15:48, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The "anomalous echoes" entry you added does not mention UFOs [1], so I suggest you remove it. - LuckyLouie (talk) 15:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, whether it is an object is a matter of debate, but it is certainly an unidentified aerial phenomenon, so it perfectly fits that list. Actually, many reports in that list are not objects. Should we remove hoaxes, misidentified meteorological events and hallucinations? Yann (talk) 20:13, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, a ufologist is not a WP:FRIND source for what is ‘anomalous’. - LuckyLouie (talk) 21:32, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No. As LuckyLouie wrote immediately above, CUFOS fails WP:FRIND. Despite the self-description, it is (was? the website seems only partially functional) an organization started by a ufologist for ufologists to discuss/collect ufology. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 22:01, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, fine. Yann (talk) 09:26, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also...a source by ufologist Jacques Vallée ("Estimates of Optical Power Output in Six Cases of Unexplained Aerial Objects") appears to be being used to promote credulous fringe interpretations in Wikipedia's voice, e.g. "Several people witnessed a UAP which trigged off the city lights of Gujan-Mestras". - LuckyLouie (talk) 18:32, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Vallée is known as an expert in this field, and is rather critical in many cases. His reports are well documented. And there is no "credulous fringe interpretations" in this report. This is simply false. There may be some other documents with questionable reasonings, but there is actually no interpretations at all in this report. Did you read it? And yes, the city lights were triggered off by some unexplained AP. This is a fact. It may be some natural phenomena (lightning?), but investigations didn't find out. Yann (talk) 01:18, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, fringe science advocates like Vallee are not the expert community Wikipedia considers reliable and independent sources for statements of fact about a fringe topic. Citing his book for nebulous reports such as "Dr. S., a French physicist, saw a luminous disk moving in the sky" is not appropriate. - LuckyLouie (talk) 15:02, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have started to remove some of the Vallee-cited entries, along with others that are non-notable and/or poorly sourced. For example, the pro-woo Ann Druffel should never be used as an authoritative source - if you question that statement, just take a look at her webpage. If anyone thinks this removed material should be reinstated, I suggest that they locate and include sources that satisfy WP:FRIND, and perhaps first consider WP:WTAF before adding the "event" to this list. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 16:21, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but I disagree. By your reasoning, there is no reliable source on this subject. So according to you, anyone who reports UFOs sightings is not reliable. It doesn't make. I am going to but them back. And these reports are certainly reliable for the facts, even if not for the interpretation. Yann (talk) 22:42, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

these reports are certainly reliable for the facts No. Ufologists like Vallée and Shough are, as LuckyLouie correctly wrote above, fringe advocates. Their books/articles/organization websites/etc. about fringe topics like UFOs can not be considered reliable. You seem to be adding controversial, non-WP:FRIND material to this and related articles, and I suggest that before you add any more such content that you first discuss each of your desired additions on the appropriate Talk page. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 00:42, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, In File:The Central Intelligence Agency and Overhead Reconnaissance, the U-2 and OXCART Programs, 1954-1974.pdf (page 72-73), there is interesting information worth including in this article:

High-altitude testing of the U-2 soon led to an unexpected side effect-a tremendous increase in reports of unidentified flying objects (UFOs). In the mid-1950s, most commercial airliners flew at altitudes between 10,000 and 20,000 feet and military aircraft like the B-47s and B-57s operated at altitudes below 40,000 feet. Consequently, once U-2s started flying at altitudes above 60,000 feet, air-traffic controllers began receiving increasing numbers of UFO reports.

Such reports were most prevalent in the early evening hours from pilots of airliners flying from east to west. When the sun dropped below the horizon of an airliner flying at 20,000 feet, the plane was in darkness. But, if a U-2 was airborne in the vicinity of the airliner at the same time, its horizon from an altitude of 60,000 feet was considerably more distant, and, being so high in the sky, its silver wings would catch and reflect the rays of the sun and appear to the airliner pilot, 40,000 feet below, to be fiery objects. Even during day-light hours, the silver bodies of the high-flying U-2s could catch the sun and cause reflections or glints that could be seen at lower altitudes and even on the ground. At this time, no one believed manned flight was possible above 60,000 feet, so no one expected to see an object so high in the sky.

Not only did the airline pilots report their sightings to air-traffic controllers, but they and ground-based observers also wrote letters to the Air Force unit at Wright Air Development Command in Dayton charged with investigating such phenomena. This, in tum, led to the Air Force's Operation BLUE BOOK. Based at Wright-Patterson, the operation collected all reports of UFO sightings. Air Force investigators then attempted to explain such sightings by linking them to natural phenomena. BLUE BOOK investigators regularly called on the Agency's Project Staff in Washington to check reported UFO sightings against U-2 flight logs. This enabled the investigators to eliminate the majority of the UFO reports, although they could not reveal to the letter writers the true cause of the UFO sightings. U-2 and later OXCART flights accounted for more than one-half of all UFO reports during the late 1950s and most of the 1960s.

Yann (talk) 09:46, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, This article is mostly overlap with UFO sightings in the United States. On that basis, it could be merge. However there are most probably more UFOs reports from the US than from anywhere else, so this means a separate article is useful. What to do? Yann (talk) 22:38, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]