User talk:Orangemarlin: Difference between revisions

For the past six months, I have been very ill with a type of heart disease that can be end-stage if not treated well. For the last three months, I've had to give up many of my pleasures in life, including riding a motorcycle and hiking. Luckily, I've been able to maintain a reasonable lifestyle with medication, but it was always a temporary measure. I've done a few things over the past few months that I had always planned to do. I camped in Tioga Pass above Yosemite National Park. Still about 4 metres (13 ft) of snow up there. I stood at 12,000 feet (3,700 m) above sea level touching some of the remnant glaciers of the last ice age melting away because of stupid Republican anti-science dumbfuckedness (my word, don't use it). I sat inside the giant Long Valley Caldera in Eastern California. If this thing ever blows, mankind could experience a population bottleneck of epic proportions. I stood inside the exploded volcano of which Mount Lassen is a part. Oh, over 30 feet (9.1 m) of snow. We had an amazing winter. The thin air was painful, but these are sights that I wish you all could see.

Anyways, I'm undergoing an experimental medical procedure that is the result of real science and evidence based medicine. It doesn't require faith or magic or belief in magical sky beings, it merely requires well trained surgeons, great devices developed and tested by Americans in California, and with medications from Big Pharma. And it will be paid for by my private healthcare insurance that is sadly available because I have the money to buy it. Even still, my chances are not high.

I left this place 2 years ago, because it's run by little self-important admins who think their shit doesn't stink. That isn't a blanket statement, because there are a few good admins, but not enough. Right now, there is a fucked up RfA where a little punk who plagiarizes content has got a bunch of fucking votes for admin. Lucky for us, SandyGeorgia (talk · contribs) outed him/her. But how many do we get that aren't outed.

Additional observations removed by Geraldw, placeholder added by Stephan Schulz (talk) 14:53, 8 July 2011 (UTC), redacted by Risker (talk) 19:33, 8 July 2011 (UTC), restored with a more neutral placeholder. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 09:24, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is an interesting, but flawed experiment in knowledge. it is a major failure in getting experienced and knowledgeable writers to edit articles. Two of the world's experts on Global warming, both of whom are Ph.D.'s in real science, but neither get to do much. One was defrocked. The other defrocked himself. No real academic would put his real name on any articles here because the anti-science culture of Wikipedia would block it.

I was fighting a battle on Reincarnation research. Give me a fucking break, but there isn't one stitch of evidence anywhere in any of the psychic fields. There are no ghosts. There are no angels. There are no fucking gods. And yes, despite what someone said, the absence of evidence, especially when you expect to see evidence IS evidence of absence. We've looked for the Lochness monster. It does not exist. We've looked for reincarnation. It isn't there. The stupidity is just stupid.

There's more to say, but I guess I don't give too much of a shit. I hope there will be real change here, but I doubt it. Jimbo Wales has bought into the right wing POV pushers, or he would have stopped the travesty done to William Connelly. He actually tried to get a bogus medical procedure to remain on here as an article, and he was FUCKING WRONG. Yes, Jimbo, you were wrong, and you never ever apologized for being wrong. You should go back to your porn with DMSbel, because you are truly useless. I used to respect you. No, your anti-intellectual, anti-academic, and anti-science regime has come into being. I think you've lived in the New Age bullshit for way too long. Oh, I was wrong about Trevor's not knowing Germ theory. He didn't know ANYTHING about science and medicine. Trevor was and is a charlatan.

But, Wikipedia has a chance to be great. Seriously great. If a real leader (come on Jimbo, you actually can do it if you quit the attempt at pure democracy), states a vision and makes everyone adhere to that vision. Convince the real editors to stay, and realize that great editors make great mistakes. Useless editors make lots of useless mistakes. Take the former, get rid of the latter. And end the incessant whining and drama on Arbcom and the various AN/I's. Who gives a flying fuck about civility? What counts is productivity and quality PERIOD. I run a fucking company. We care about the customer, and that's it. Wikipedia's customer are people trying to get accurate information. Every college in the world (OK, maybe not all) bans Wikipedia as a source. That is just wrong, and shows a lack of leadership to move this place to mean something. I won't tell you what I make an hour in real life, but it's a lot more than probably 99.9% of the people editing here. And I've given this project thousands of those hours. That's valuable, and I guess that's why I don't give a shit about what some whiny admin thinks of me. They can go back to their basement. I get to bring another medical device to the market, make millions off of it, and save lives. There are doctors here who do the same thing. There are professors here who are bringing the best and brightest into the working world. And then there are a bunch of your loser admins sitting in the basement. I wouldn't give them the time of day in real life.

Well, I'll either be dead or alive by Monday morning. I'm hoping for the alive, but the odds don't favor it. If I make it, I may or may not come back, I may reappear as a sock. Oh horrors! Or, if I'm dead, well, as it says on some anonymous headstone, "I now know more than all of you." And dammit, if I do get reincarnated as a cockroach, I intend to burrow myself into Cla69's brain...though there might not be much there. Fuck the world!

Yo Boris. Leave some pithy comment here. I'll read it on my iPhone while I spend some time with friends over the next few days. I hope some cowardly douche fuckwad of an admin doesn't delete this comment with that delete tool. In fact, I hope someone does try, so that real admins will revert. It may be fun to watch.

To you asshat POV-pushing dumbfucks...go fuck yourselves. Seriously do it for humanity, because you are not that important.

Hans Adler...I don't get you. But you're German, and my people have a certain sensitivity to the Huns. Michael C Price...I don't agree with about 75% of what you write, but as Hans says, it's a technicolor world. You really know your geology, stick to that.

Couple of more things. Go Orange. Go Marlins. And I wish I could eat a giant, fatty piece of prime rib. Anyways, au revoir, auf wiedersehen, goodbye. What a Long Strange Trip It's Been.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 05:13, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I wish I had something pithy to say. I don't. I'm a little at loss for words here. Hoping for the best. I will be thinking of you and your family. Guettarda (talk) 06:09, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I hope you have many happy weekends. --Philcha (talk) 06:25, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I'd keep my fingers crossed, but that's probably the opposite of what you'd want me to... All the best, and I really hope to hear from you again in a few weeks! --Stephan Schulz (talk) 06:56, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Thank you for your service. A word of advice from my favorite author: "For those contemplating reincarnation, a major drawback to life as a cnidarian would seem to be the absence of an anus." Pechenik, Jan. Biology of the Invertebrates. 6th international ed. 2010. pp. 102 Danger (talk) 07:32, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• You won't be "either dead or alive" by Monday. You'll either be "viable" or "not viable". Regardless, I hope it goes well for you. Take care. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:09, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I recommend you watch this clip.[2] Whatever God might actually be (and none of us knows), He will be working through the hands of your surgeons. Have faith in the doctors. They'll do everything that's possible to be done. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:13, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Just couldn't resist. :P And I think that will be my only (on-wiki) comment on the matter. Cheers. MastCell ^Talk 17:00, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • LOL, quality. - RoyBoy 06:10, 10 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• What Steven said. I hope it goes well for you. Spartaz ^Humbug! 08:29, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Ai yi yi! I wish you Good Luck. Cardamon (talk) 08:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Believe it or not, I've learned a lot from you, just reading the various talk pages on which you've posted. So for that, I thank you. I trust you'll be both viable and alive soon enough, not because of anyone's imaginary friend working through the hands of men who spent countless years perfecting the art of heart surgery, but because of great men who spent countless years perfecting the art of heart surgery. Good luck, my friend N^oformation ^Talk 10:08, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Best wishes OM. I have noticed you getting a bit grumpy lately, but the above is pure gold. If you want a laugh while watching admins wonder what to do with your text, you could review this ANI thread (permalink) where the community pointed out that an admin who pointedly associated an editor with a tombstone under the heading "Wikipedians whom I wish were dead" was a not my problem issue as far as those at ANI are concerned—perhaps they will spring to action when seeing real evil such as the above. Johnuniq (talk) 10:16, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• OM, drop me an email if you'd like. I know what you are going through and how you are feeling. It is all normal feelings you're having. Please feel free to rant and rave to me via my email function. Until then, I wish you the best and you will be up on your feet doing your favorite things again in no time at all. All my best, --CrohnieGal^Talk 10:42, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Ouch! I nearly missed this as you weren't on my watchlist. I am extremely sorry to hear this. I can't say I am really surprised it's a heart disease you are fighting with. I feel a bit guilty now for not guessing this; while only you can really keep your stress levels down, I hate feeling I might have contributed to them.
  Whatever happens, don't give yourself up. I guess you will be dealing with people who really know what they are doing, to the extent one can speak of that in such a situation. Help them do their jobs. Is it scheduled already? Think about how you can shape your thoughts for when it happens. I believe it's important that if you should get the impression that something is not as it should be (maybe subconsciously, under narcosis), that you fight for something, not against something. Maybe pick a realistic and concrete goal, a small thing that you want to do in your new lease of life. Fight for that. When your brain functions are temporarily reduced to those of a mollusc, abstract thoughts won't work, so prepare for that and program yourself with the right simple and concrete thoughts.
  We are so different that I don't know if this advice makes sense for you. If not, just ignore it and do what is right for you, and then come back and tell me how wrong I was. Hans Adler 10:44, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I imagine you picked a good place to be sick in, so I bet the docs know their shit where you are. Hope to see you soon, oh, and go Habs go. Dbrodbeck (talk) 10:50, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• We haven't really interacted, except I chided you once at WQA. You've been excellent here, your defense of reason outstanding. I hope all goes well on Monday. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 11:11, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• What counts is productivity and quality PERIOD - well it would be nice, but you'll never convince arbcomm of that. Unsurprisingly I agree with you. Best wishes, and thanks William M. Connolley (talk) 11:28, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Well, good luck and I hope the doctors do well. I've found you abrasive in the past, but honestly, given the stress you must be and have been under, I cannot say I really blame you now. By the way, I've always admired your work on keeping medical articles up-to-date and free from silly fringe viewpoints. Good luck, and I'm confident I'll see you again eventually! Reaper Eternal (talk) 12:03, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Best of luck and hope to see you back next week. You're getting enough advice, but if you want to vent to a crusty old fart, drop me email. --Nuujinn (talk) 12:12, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Here's hoping you're Built to Last, keep on truckin' and good luck with the op, . dave souza, talk 12:23, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

When you're under....just stay away from the light ...and come back here next week. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:38, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• All the best on Monday. Hope to see you soon. Never give up. Dougweller (talk) 12:48, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Take care, science be with you --B (talk) 12:56, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I haven't talked to you since the good work you did on the Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event several years back. I hope others listen to what you say about the importance of the customer; you are so right. I wish you much love and acceptance in whatever happens to you, and please, please remember, don't just stay away from the light as Casliber warns, but stay away from the warm inviting caves, because they're actually wombs! :) :) :) Anyway, I leave you with the immortal words of eden ahbez: "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return." I'm looking forward to learning more about your experience; we will all have to face it sooner or later, but it sounds to me like you've got a lot of life left in you. Viriditas (talk) 13:32, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Have a rapid recovery - hope to see you active around here real soon. Vsmith (talk) 13:34, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Damn. I won't wish you luck, as there's no such thing, and I'm sure you've done everything you can to optimize your odds. If it goes well, it'd be great to hear more when you're up to it. If not, it's been a real education. So long, and thanks for all the fish. LeadSongDog come howl! 13:42, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Sorry to hear you’re sick. It’s hard to be disabled in the prime of life. Best wishes for a good recovery, Postpostmod (talk) 13:51, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Haven't had a lot of interaction with you except crossing paths on a few articles, but I want to wish you a speedy recovery and quick return. Yobol (talk) 14:19, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Fucker. Furthur is playing Red Rocks end of September and I already got you tickets. I advise you follow the Golden Road to Unlimited Devotion "...everybody's dancin' in a ring around the sun; Nobody's finished, we ain't even begun. So take off your shoes, child, and take off your hat. Try on your wings and find out where it's at." If you don't show we will remember you as we dance and sing, like fucking fiends, under the light of a Colorado Moon; On our way to Terrapin. Personally, I think you'll show. - ArtifexMayhem (talk) 15:27, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Fuck it, I'm sending you positive energies anyway. Whatever you're up against I fear for it. Fare well, pal. That's an order.Ocaasi ^{t | c} 15:33, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Bloody hell, you never let any of this on at any point. I hope your treatment goes well. JFW | T@lk 15:44, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Best of luck...it's obvious a lot of us will be checking in the next couple of weeks looking for a post from you saying "sorry about all the fuss; reports of my demise were just original research that someone made up; I'm back but I still meant every word in my "Parting thoughts". Make it sooner rather than later. --Pseudo-Richard (talk) 16:34, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I have to add my name here, too. We did, famously, come to loggerheads over intelligent design several years ago. There was never any contention that you weren't right about ID's factual basis; I was concerned about style issues on fringe articles. In any case, good luck :) Sceptre ^(talk) 17:41, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• You forgot hockey. How could you forget hockey in your farewell speech? I'm hoping the experiment works out well, and that you'll get to walk those beautiful girls down the aisle after all. Risker (talk) 19:33, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Nah. It'll take more than op get one over on you.See you soon.Fainites ^barleyscribs 21:16, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• If you must leave us, know you've left us better than you found us. If you stick around, know what you'll always have a place.--Tznkai (talk) 21:41, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• OM, I think of you as Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men. What you do needs to be done, and unless I'm willing to get down in the trenches and do it too, I'll resist the urge to criticize the way you do it. Sooner or later you're probably going to get court-marshaled, and I won't have any legal defense you can use, but until then I close my eyes, put my fingers in my ears, and be glad you're doing the necessary work in whatever way to see fit.

  See you in a couple of weeks. Slow clap (3rd paragraph). --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:02, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Well, this was damn depressing to log onto Wikipedia and see. To pay penance for your sins of depressing a bunch of us, I fully expect you to be back here working in a month's time. You got that? This dweeb's going to hold you to it. NW (Talk) 22:41, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Health sucks sometimes. May your operation be hugely successful and put you back on your feet soon. Heck, let it make medical history and show the medical community all sorts of things about how to do things in the future. Most importantly, may it give you a new lease on life. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 23:51, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• If you don't mind I'll be praying for you. And if you do mind you can go piss up a fucking rope, I'm going to do it anyway. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 23:56, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1. support --Rocksanddirt (talk) 00:54, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    2. Support with a DAMN I hate to see this. All my heart OM. — Ched :  ?  10:24, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Hope all goes well. Try not to be such a dick when you get back. Big request, I know ;) Throwaway85 (talk) 01:27, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. (Fortunately, this isn't MSNBC, and OM is not POTUS.) OM, thanks for leaving me out of your screed, intentionally or not.  :-)Anythingyouwant (talk) 04:40, 11 July 2011 (UTC)(Ferrylodge)[reply]
• OM, you've been a friend to me, and a real pleasure to work with over the years; I wish you the best. Doc Tropics 01:35, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• What an awesome bunch of parting thoughts. Now if you just removed the "parting" part ... /ƒETCHCOMMS/ 02:50, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• The world is very complicated and our brains are very small. Too small to dismiss the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by the hundreds of generations before us. There is no need to approach this believing that "when a human dies, he becomes nothing but a puddle of inorganic salts and organic molecules." Shalom.--Anthon.Eff (talk) 04:14, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Support for you, with what you're going through. We've never interacted, you and I (as far as I can recall). Utmost good wishes - for what they're worth - from a surgery-veteran. I really hope to hear that you've made it through OK, but whatever happens, don't go down without a damned good fight! I could attempt to invoke all kinds of in-the-ether (or otherwise) vibes and whatnots, on the basis that if they don't exist, it will do you no harm, and if they do exist, it may do you some good. I really don't know how you'd feel about that anyway, but just trust that it's meant well. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:23, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• As per Throwaway85. Plus, you make me laugh, which is good. -- cheers, Michael C. Price ^talk 10:29, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I am really sorry about this, and I wish you the very best and a speedy recovery. Acalamari 16:34, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• The odds didn't favor the Utes in January 2009 either. Please pull through. Cool Hand Luke 00:59, 10 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I'd have loved to put something funny and poignant here, but Mastcell did. Your impatience with the absurd has taught me a few things along the way, for that I thank you. While I firmly regard USA's under-regulated private health care as an abomination, but it does provide for the specialization and expertise you're about to give a college try, and brain drains Canada for kicks. I'll drink to your speedy recovery, and maybe when you get back I/we will get drunk and lay into an article that has it coming! - RoyBoy 06:10, 10 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Go OrangeMarlin. Beat the fucking odds. Ward20 (talk) 17:51, 10 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Best of luck. We with science need all the help we can get... Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:55, 10 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• We've got different styles, ye old dog, but we've got the same goal. Here's hoping that the Long Strange Strip continues for you. II | (t - c) 07:00, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Good luck OM and all the best. All I can really say is HUZZAH for evidence based medicine. Shot info (talk) 03:09, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Good luck, and I hope you're just recuperating now. Jayjg ^(talk) 04:44, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I do wish I would have seen this thread sooner. For sure I would have included you in one of my prayers. As it now stands, I can only hope enough others have. It would be great if you could append one more edit. Just so those who do care can know that you have indeed triumphed. My76Strat ^talk 06:56, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• We may not have agreed with each other in the past. Nevertheless, I must say that I do find some of your "in your face" comments amusing and sometimes entertaining. I am shocked to learn of your health condition. I hope things do get better for you. It would be a great pity if it doesn't, for the world would be a much duller place. danielkueh (talk) 00:58, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, Hans. Stick with math. LOL My behavior is neither causal nor a symptom of what I'm going through. I've explained it to a couple of the physician types who are "friends" here, and it's extremely complex related to something that happened to me about six months ago. I have never had a heart attack (which you implied). I hope to never have one either.

I kind of read some of the crap from DMSBel today. He's probably having a woody that I'm dying, which he can use while downloading porn. Honestly people, if you don't topic ban him, you're doing a disservice to the project. He is one of the most objectionable human beings around here, right along with FT2. They are what my daughters call creepy. But DMSBel, I'm irrelevant to the abortion article. But you certainly think I am, which is certainly one of the most deluded things I've ever seen. You see, I can analyze someone quite rapidly on here, and so can others.

And those of you who think I'm lying or making this up, that would be untrue. Oh well, that's your cruel, small mind, not mine. Think about the long letters I've had to write to my daughters, telling them how much I regret going to miss their weddings, college graduations, and all the other seminal events of a young life. Think about how I'll miss watching baseball games and whether the characters of Lost ever get off the island. Oh, I saw that. I guess I'm ignoring it. I'm going to miss seeing what modern medicine will do for humanity. One day, the procedure that I'm undergoing will be a notable one, with an article here. It is being done by top cardiologists in the country in one of the top hospitals in the country. The science behind it is amazing. I've been fully informed by its risks and its benefits. The company that developed it is following appropriate FDA procedures and institutional review board approvals. Sorry Jimbo, but this is how real medical studies are done, not the crap ones that you and your admins support (mostly).

I'll miss this place too. This place has been entertaining for the past few months. I enjoyed editing here a few hours a day. None of you noticed, but I tweaked only those who were total assholes–they are the ones who responded with the whiny ANI's or whatever else I ignored complete. It was so easy that I probably shouldn't have done it, but it was more than amusing. But that wasn't my goal here, it was mostly editing some real articles, which I hope stand forever.

I appreciate all of the kind words. Seriously, I do. Thus ends my final edit. Except for one thing. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:12, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"One thing" redacted by Ched Davis. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:35, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dude, we both know what really ails you, and the docs can't fix that! Top cardiologist, top hospital-- you must be heading up my way, 'cuz they don't have those "down there"!!! See 'ya on the other side-- send me an e-mail, and I'll help pick out your daughters' prom dresses. They Will Be Red. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:46, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OM: [3] re [4] —Scheinwerfermann ^T·_C08:00, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I hope to hear something soon from you, my friend. N^oformation ^Talk 08:51, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Me, too :o) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 09:25, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, I check every day, just hoping....Doc Tropics 13:53, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Does anybody have any news? I hope he made it. Reaper Eternal (talk) 16:07, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No news yet, then? Pesky (talk …stalk!) 15:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Still nothing? Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:43, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

? Pesky (talk …stalk!) 05:59, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I've been watching this whole time, waiting... Unfortunately, it's not looking good. He did suggest that even if his procedure was successful, he might or might not return to Wikipedia. No one seems to know one way or the other. And while I don't think OM made an open-ended statement like that to give the community some sense of false hope, here's sincerely hoping that he'll return someday... or better yet, that he made it and has simply decided to enjoy life—real life— from here on out. I know that's what I would do if given an amazing second chance. Ah, but we may never know... :| Swarm ^{u | t} 19:28, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It would be nice just to know that he made it through, even if he never comes back to WikiLand. I really hope he made it OK. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 05:08, 3 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

<od>Still in ICU. Better but not perfect. UCLA doctors rock. And some one tell anyone discussing me in a case to go fuck themselves with a foley. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:05, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm recused on the case, so I can say this without any conflict of interest: Glad to hear you've made it this far. Clearly whatever surgery they did, it did not involve a personality transplant. :-) I wish you continued recovery. Risker (talk) 02:14, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

welcome back - I wikilinked that for the masses....Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:29, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Risker has found the words I was looking for. Hans Adler 05:15, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bravo! Now we can clear that entry for "Deceased Wikpedians" from our paste-buffer. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:17, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome back, my friend, to the show that never ends

— ELP

It looks like boredom won't be a big problem here anytime soon. LeadSongDog come howl! 05:45, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am soooo pleased (and relieved)! :D I have spent the last several weeks worrying about you, lol! (I'm a silly soft cow, like that). Have a long-distance virtual hug! (>**)> <(**<) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 07:03, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good to see you posting, even if it's just a little. Take the time you need to get your strength back. It takes time to do that so be patient.  :) Ignore all the other crap, it's not important. It was great to see you post, update us when you feel up to doing so. Feel better and stronger real soon, --CrohnieGal^Talk 14:29, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good news indeed OM, thanks for letting us know. Second the above comments, Risker Pesky and Crohnie in particular express my feelings well. . . dave souza, talk 16:16, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good to hear OM, really. I wish you the best. Swarm ^{u | t} 00:25, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Woot! The Old Fish survives, and the peasants rejoice! Damn am I glad to hear you made it....I cried some real tears thinking we'd lost you. I'm so happy I could go vandalize the Evolution article out of sheer exuberance : ) Doc Tropics 00:47, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

At this point I feel like I have explained my views fully, and there is no point to repetition. Yet I see little discussion. Perhaps an RfC is called for - the terms of the ArbCom decision make this reasonable. But my main interest is to attract more informed editors to the discussion. Slrubenstein | Talk 10:48, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Look above N^oformation ^Talk 02:12, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I know that you might not see this, but this message is to inform you that you have been added as a party to a currently open Arbitration case, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abortion, per Arbitrator instructions. You may provide evidences and comments at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abortion/Evidence.

For the Arbitration Committee,
- Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 01:22, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sitting in an ICU and I get this bullshit? Let me be blunt. Tell the little narcissistic self-important small-minded fucktards who waste bandwidth with thi shit to fucking blow each each other. My life has no use for little shits like that. With all my love. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:02, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey!! You're there!! How are you doing? Looie496 (talk) 02:04, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

you have to love evidence based medicine. I promise I never once prayed for you.... Dbrodbeck (talk) 02:52, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[5] Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:05, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yaaaay! My76Strat (talk) 03:08, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad to see you're feeling better. SlightSmile 03:16, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome back OM, just a shame it has to be crap like this to force to post. Best wishes for your recovery. Spartaz ^Humbug! 04:26, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Feel better and hoping for speedy recovery. And I apologize for having to post something like this, but I was indeed instructed to have you added (as well as a bunch of others...) - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 07:06, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Glad you didn't die. I must now return to following your instructions (blow each each other).  :-)Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:38, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• "With all my love", even from the ICU ur good times. - RoyBoy 03:32, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wishing you a speedy recovery won't make you get better any faster, but I'm just a chimpanzee with a few too many neurons so I'm going to do it anyway. Glad you're still here WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 17:20, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Nice to see you! You have mail, but it's nothing urgent, just take it easy. Bishonen | talk 18:43, 5 September 2011 (UTC).[reply]
• And you have mail from me too, friend. It's so good to see you that I'm practically jumping up and down. Or I would jump up and down if I could jump up and down without falling. You'll see. You and I both seem to have had the year from hell. Hang in there, friend. We shall triumph together. :-) - KrakatoaKatie 08:56, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Welcome back. Glad to hear you beat the odds. --Pseudo-Richard (talk) 17:48, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• You once mentioned the many valuable hours you have contributed to this encyclopedia. None of those hours will ever be as valuable as the one you gave while in the ICU. You have improved the countenance of many, including me. I hope you recover well, and if you find reason to share more of your time, that would be great. My76Strat (talk) 19:51, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Hope everything went well. Shot info (talk) 02:42, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• The Twins are in last place. I blame you. It feels right. And I feel better. And that's all that matters. oh, and I'm mostly glad that you feel better too. Because this place is insanely not important in the scheme of things, but you're not not.  :-) Keeper | 76 13:54, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Fuckin' A. Good to know you're in the land of the living, and even well enough to get onto the hateful internet. Sounds like a good time to read a few books and relax. Nevard (talk) 07:40, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I am still grinning! I was sooooooo worried about you! And yes, be patient with your recovery (there's a reason why patients are called 'patients' ......) Know that you have a huge amount more affection in here than you possibly realised before t his little interlude; we value you, we really do. Despite the odd kick in your gallop ... Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:37, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I was elated to see you back. Full of piss and vinegar, I see, which is a good sign. Hang in there. Antandrus (talk) 03:42, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I wish you a happy recovery and am glad that you are back. Blue Rasberry (talk) 04:07, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I'm glad to see edits from you again! Very best wishes and welcome back. :) Acalamari 12:56, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I've not had much interaction with you, but I have spectated many instances of your activity on talk pages for articles I edit or watch. Your story was rather compelling and it is good to see you are doing better. Cheers, John Shandy` • talk 15:52, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Indeed, welcome back! It was starting to get dull around here! danielkueh (talk) 20:48, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you're around, I have a little quest which might amuse and entertain you!

I'm looking for some strong anti-quackery types to re-balance an article which I CSD'd as spam; it's now been userfied for re-working, as, once neutralised, it could be a decent article. See if you can "dig some dirt" for this one: User:Zoeyeve/Kent_Holtorf (notes on its talk page). I thought it might be right up your street :o) Pesky (talk …stalk!) 06:13, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Update; newbie has done excellent work on this, with a bit of mentoring. This means you may smooth your hackles down and relax again. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:04, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You rocked them. (refering to the evolutionism article here). You sir, are fuking awesome.PerfectGentleman (talk) 04:23, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not any less mellow. In fact significantly more cranky. I was practicing medicine with nothing more than my brains (wouldn't want to rely on that) and my iPhone (still the ancient 4, haven't had time to pick up the 4S). Though I had access to a lot of books and medical apps on my iPhone, I had to more than once use a Wikipedia app to look up information here on medicine. Some of it was a crock of shit, but I couldn't edit, because the app I had wouldn't allow me to edit. Some of the junk I read about certain diseases was ridiculous. Who writes this shit? Oh well, I've got trouble to cause.

And I've been amused by some of the comments and shit. And Boris, how dare you pray for me! You twit. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:56, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's about fucking time. You've been missed. ArtifexMayhem (talk) 18:01, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, delighted to see OM back in action, and tactful as ever. Even when typing on one of these overgrown telephones. A word of caution, sweary words like "twit" may cause severe offence to certain cultural groups, and should be avoided. . dave souza, talk 20:15, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the kind words. Good to see you're back on internal DC power. BTW you're awarethat Arbcom wants your gonads hanging from their chandelier, correct? Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 14:07, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My gonads are kind of shriveled and old. They can have them. They may not have my 12" dick. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:46, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I've heard that severe cardiovascular problems can make you see double. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 02:27, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Width or length? ArtifexMayhem (talk) 14:06, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Being fully versed in the Federal Shut My Fucking Mouth Regulations, I better not say. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:47, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I understand. Best stick with the Spinal Tap defense..."[Female fans] are really quite fearful, that’s my theory. They see us on stage with tight trousers and we’ve got, you know, armadillos in our trousers. I mean, it’s really quite frightening, the size. They run screaming." ArtifexMayhem (talk) 18:06, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is what I love about my talk page. It always have obscure references that crack up a certain part of the crowd, while the trolls, rightwing nutjobs and douchebags have no clue. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:11, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Good to see you back. You must have a favorable tattoo-to-tooth ratio. MastCell ^Talk 20:29, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have a galaxy android thingy now - editing WP is nearly impossible with it. meh. Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:45, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, just when I was beginning to doze off, too. Got any interesting cardiology tips for editors? LeadSongDog come howl! 23:18, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have all my teeth and no tattoos. It's a small miracle I'm alive. iPhones can't edit Wikipedia easily. And, Cardiology residents have gotten HOT. Seriously HOT. I need my balls back. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:50, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, give it up. I doubt these cardiologists-in-training are about to sleep with one of their patients. I mean, they're not psychiatrists. MastCell ^Talk 01:13, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Psychiatry made rounds too. Their female residents and sub-interns (is that what they're called these days?) were pretty nice looking too. I think it might be a UCLA School of Medicine thing! OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:55, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

One can only imagine what the psychiatry consult service had to say about you. MastCell ^Talk 05:58, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's not like they were real doctors. I mean seriously, do they do anything but prescribe the newest SSI inhibitor? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 06:04, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Glad to see you still in the land of the living (or are we witnessing a genuine cyberghost phenomenon :). Can I unofficially point you to [6] - even Arbcom thought you might have run down the curtain and gone to join the choir eternal this time. Let me know if you want to cause that trouble immediately, or go fix up Housemaid's Knee or some such, just to ease yourself back into it. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:50, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Don't care. Won't read. But thanks.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:50, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fairy snuff. Probably help your blood pressure too :) --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:56, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You tempted me. I clicked on the link despite my best efforts. Sounds like I should stay away from the Abortion article, which isn't the most important thing around here. Jclemens has something up his ass however. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:59, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That would work. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:27, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Elen, in case you didn't get my amusing snark, this was in no way an attack on you. I just hope you realize that anything Arbcom does ranks approximately #3,471 on my list of important things in my life. But I got my slap on the wrist, and the big offenders got their asses kicked and blocked. As it should be. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:54, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• How nice to see you back OM—that rocks my socks too! (Referring to section above this one.) Co-sign if you agree, socks! Bishonen | talk 01:01, 19 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]

You haven't been blocked for so many socks? I hope they've been washed. And I hope all is well with what you mentioned. Really, I do. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:50, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. Rockin' on completely with some brand new components ! The socks are on borrowed time, I suppose. But the evil young darwinbish was very glad to meet you — perhaps she thinks you're a match for her in tactlessness. Not something she sees every day ! Bishonen | talk 23:41, 27 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Endorsing:

• bishzilla _ROARR!! 01:03, 19 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]
• bishapod talk to your inner fish 01:04, 19 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]
• Frutti di Mare 01:06, 19 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]
• darwin^fish 01:07, 19 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]
• darwinbish ^BITE 01:09, 19 November 2011 (UTC).[reply]

• Dead chuffed! You have seldom been out of my thoughts these past couple / few several months. I'm soft like that. Pesky (talk …stalk!) 10:01, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Ah, the second coming...who knew it would happen in my lifetime? JJL (talk) 16:12, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I hope this is more Judas Priest than Rob Halford solo. Glad that you're back... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:07, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Best wishes. Mathsci (talk) 22:13, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 01:00, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Hey, great! What'ya waitin' for ... jump right in & have some fun :) Vsmith (talk) 01:11, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bravo - geology and USMC ... Great to see your moniker on my watchlist, Vsmith (talk) 22:35, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That article read like it was written by the USMC PR department. LOL. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:50, 27 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Heh - marines are all PR pros, drilled into 'em. And if you disagree w/ the PR ... there are other means available :) Anyway I watch those pages, but seldom edit there - COI from mind alteration back in July '64 or something like that. Vsmith (talk) 19:42, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Congratulations on surviving. I would like to mention that, in regard to "prayers", at least 87 studies have shown that there is no correlation between prayer or "positive thinking" and defeating a medical problem. I know this is true because I saw it on Osgood this morning. What they left out is that such things do have an effect on one's ability to cope with whatever God / Zeus / Mother Nature / whoever may end up dishing out. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:33, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. It was actually Hogwarts that helped. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:23, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Damned fine to see you back. Outstanding actually. Dbrodbeck (talk) 02:19, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How are those Habs doing? LOL. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:55, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, at least none of their players have had their necks broken this year, so they have that going for them. Oh yeah, and bite me... Dbrodbeck (talk) 20:24, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Great to see you back at work. All the best. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:18, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Glad to see you doing well. Yobol (talk) 23:07, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mixed feelings. She was crucial to the advancement of evolutionary biology with endosymbiosis. But her AIDS denialism and 9/11 truther beliefs were most disgusting. If I believed in hell, she deserves a place next to Hitler (yeah, I know Godwin's Law). OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:37, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gotta focus on the positives. Unfortunately age does things to the logical brain - gonna get us all. It's the Pauling/Vitamin C thingy and divers other old scientist foibles. Maybe Wikipedia needs a list of 'em. Course w/blp would need to focus on dead ones. Vsmith (talk) 20:14, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We can't blame age. Not everyone gets dementia. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:56, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wasn't thinking of dementia. Just the tendency of some very talented scientists to let their accolades go to their head. A guy achieves success in their field or even gets a Nobel for some very good work ... then uses that "fame" to comment on things beyond their expertise and support some fringy ideas or political causes. Have you read Merchants of Doubt? Vsmith (talk) 22:04, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your chivalry is most appreciated in assisting my student to fix her references on the HPV vaccine page. Waterbug42 (talk) 18:46, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, if you read my usual M.O., I'm rarely, if ever, that nice. However, I saw what she was trying to do, which seemed reasonable. I actually like the the inline citation system here, because we could add a new Reference #1, which would require a whole scale renumbering. No one would edit then. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:50, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the work done recently had a wider effect than anticipated? Glad to see you're back. --Nuujinn (talk) 22:21, 28 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jclemens is absolute douche. Thanks MastCell, you're a good guy. If I were completely healthy, I'd love to see Jclemens in person. Probably a little pussy that would hide in his mommy's basement. Wouldn't have the balls to talk to me like a man. GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU TINY LITTLE MAN JCLEMENS. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:24, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Orangemarlin, I understand that you are very upset and angry right now. I do think that lashing out in anger is not going to achieve anything positive, and that your feelings on the matter can be expressed better. As such, I have removed your comment from the proposed decision talk page but not the one immediately above here, as this is your talkpage (though I do think that in the cold light of day you yourself might wish to remove it). If you wish to take this further, I suggest you do so calmly and wisely. If you would like any friendly advice, please do not hesitate to contact me. Regards --Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 02:23, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OM, think of it this way: by expressing yourself in these terms you risk creating a sympathy backlash for Jclemens. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 02:32, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Harvester makes a good point. Stress relief is what you need OM. I'd suggest killing a puppy every time Jclemens comes to mind. It works. I survived the Bush years using a similar technique involving kittens. ArtifexMayhem (talk) 12:15, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So that's what happened to the Panthera tigris altaica population!!! LeadSongDog come howl! 14:15, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OM is not the only one that is totally pissed off. This editor voted me to be banned from the article for using "uncivil hegemony and sarcasm" three times out of about 180 posts and when I go to the page mentioned here I find a post made by him that reads:

Or should we just drop the pretense, and automagically give everyone who says they have real-world medical problems a "get out of ArbCom free" pass? That seems to be the direction we're heading, and I don't see any collective will within the committee to change it. Jclemens (talk) 02:00, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Er, isn't that the kind of talk that he wants me banned for? I am seeing a new side of Wikipedia that I do not like at all and it makes me very discouraged and angry. Gandydancer (talk) 16:23, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's the sort of hypocrisy we've come to expect from Arbcoms, unfortunately. Alas they are blind to the corrosive effects of their double standards.-- cheers, Michael C. Price ^talk 17:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There's no useful set of checks and balances on the admins here. Most adminning is of the drive-by variety--take a quick look, issue an edict, and move on, Judge Dredd-style. I came out well in this latest round and yet I'm hardly encouraged by the process. JJL (talk) 03:21, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Took it off the page Artifex? Really? So, Jclemens, the pathetic little pussy who probably thinks being a janitor is a step up in life, gets to cast lies against me and get away with it? Then I can't even tell him he's a fucking asshole? Well, how fair is that? And Boris, if the system here actually worked well, I'd believe you on the backlash. However, he'll get support from the asshole crowd who thinks that homeopathy works, so it doesn't matter. Arbcom is made up of a few very good people, a few decent people, and a couple of truly awesome losers. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 10:55, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why quacks can succeed: A case study

If the only difference between science based medicine and quackery were that one worked, and the other didn't, the current proliferation of homeopathy, etc, wouldn't be possible: the benefits of active treatment are normally perceived as superior to placebo. But the playing field isn't level. Humans are social animals, who want to perceive medical treatment staff as caring about them. They respond to things such as friendliness of the clerk at the front desk, the ambiance and decor of the office, and so on. When selling snakeoil, medical marketing factors such as these are everything. By contrast, the average citizen displays an appalling lack of medical knowledge. It is therefore a mistake for physicians to assume that they are so obviously better than quacks that they need not do everything they can to improve the treatment experience. Moreover, the success (or lack thereof) of a doctor's practice may not provide adequate feedback: the diversion of patients to quacks, and concomitant loss of demand for medical services, might simply be resulting in fewer students attending medical school than would otherwise be the case. Such a trend could easily be obscured (for now) by the current growth in the medical field and proliferation of new and expensive treatments. I assume, Orangemarlin, that you don't tell your patients to fuck themselves. Nonetheless, your behavior here, and for the last several years, illustrates the current attitudinal problems of the medical profession. Alessandra Napolitano (talk) 02:39, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you're judging the "attitudinal problems of the medical profession" by Orangemarlin's contributions to Wikipedia, then I have to question the validity of your conclusions. MastCell ^Talk 05:13, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

???OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 10:38, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's just an example. I've ample experience with doctors to conclude that there's an issue. Walk into the waiting room in a typical doctor's office and what will you see? A (figuratively) sterile environment brightly lit with fluorescent tubes installed in an acoustic tile ceiling. Beyond chairs, no attempts at decor are made; walls which could be covered with reprints of classic renaissance art or stunning landscapes are instead bare. None of that is really necessary: you don't need sufficient illumination to perform surgery or walls that can easily be sterilized in the waiting room. The receptionist is likely to greet you with an attitude of polite indifference. The doctor will converse with you only to gather enough information to make a diagnosis and formulate a treatment plan - it is absolutely out of the question that he/she would have sufficient time to really get to know you. None of these are favorable attributes for a medical system that is in direct competition with quacks.

There is also the matter of physicians hanging the "alternative medicine" (i.e. quackery) banner where it doesn't really belong. Systems like homeopathy, etc, are clearly trying to practice medicine, and failing miserably at the task. But sites like Quackwatch are fond of sweeping all sorts of new-age spiritualism into the "medicine" category, then finding, not surprisingly, that the practices don't meet accepted evidence-based medicine standards. Purporting to cure cancer is clearly a medical claim, and proponents of unproven treatments in this respect should be vigorously excoriated. Claiming to balance someone's chakras or transmit reiki energy? It's about as medical as an exorcism. Continuing to stuff more and more physical, social, and religious activities into the "alternative medicine" category is untenable, and undermines respect for the medical profession.

Finally, physicians themselves need to live up to evidence-based medicine standards. Far too many, at least outside the academic community, are treating based primarily on their own clinical experience or pharmaceutical manufacturer's advertising, while ignoring the medical literature. It requires a great deal of humility for doctors to admit that their own experience is subject to placebo effect and confirmation bias, so Cochrane may know better than them. Alessandra Napolitano (talk) 08:01, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were large national differences on this one. In the UK, most GP's waiting rooms (and many hospital corridors etc.) have pictures and other visual attractions; many GP waiting rooms have small children's play areas, and fish tanks, and so on. Similarly, many individual doctors' consulting rooms have some level of decoration. And again, I think that it's possible that in the UK there may be a bit more of a "consider the whole family" approach. Thirdly (and possibly most importantly), in the UK we have The NHS, which (although not perfect) does mean that people aren't quite so tempted to hunt around for other (and possibly less expensive) modes of treatment. As someone who's had multiple surgeries, I've had quite a bit of experience of waiting rooms, wards, and corridors in the UK; I haven't seen, here, quite the same level of user-unfriendliness as is described above. It could be interesting to get hold of any end-user-surveys of medical care in different countries and compare levels of perceived impersonal-ness (I know there's a real word, but can't quite get to it) with levels of "alternative-medicine-seeking". Pesky (talk …stalk!) 12:12, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alessandra, I have no clue as to your goals or even your logic here. I don't practice medicine, and if you read anything here about me, you wouldn't have made that assumption. As to relating my attitude towards pseudoscience as to what I do in the real world, well, that's why I hide behind a large degree of anonymity. I tell idiots here to fuck themselves, when in the real world, I have to smile and say, "sure, but the evidence doesn't support it." Then I call security and have them thrown through the window out on the street or something. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 10:47, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]