User talk:Odysseus1479: Difference between revisions

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Hello, Odysseus1479! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! œ™ 20:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply] Getting Started The five pillars of Wikipedia • Tutorial • Your first article How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

[consolidated from previous locations]

I see that you commented on the talk of sub pages, sorry as this page was not created due to my absence, but If you wish, I can identify them for you. Bugboy52.4 ¦ =-= 23:43, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[from User talk:Bugboy52.40] Thanks for your offer (several months ago now!) to help identify insect photos. Here are a couple from a suburban environment near the Aegean coast of Turkey: [dead link] (something like a shield-bug, fairly large: about 25 mm long) and [dead link] (a scarabaeus? of similar size). Please advise also whether or not you think they’d be useful (i.e. of adequate quality and not duplicating existing shots) if I were to upload them to Commons. Can you identify arachnids as well?—Odysseus1479 (talk) 02:19, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be glad to help you, even though I don't remember that I said that (probably because it was such a long time ago). Also, its not to difficult to identify arachnids as I have a few text that include them, and I've written a few articles. Bugboy52.4 ¦ =-= 02:30, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I finally got around to collecting some of my photos: please look at these images when you get a chance, and let me know if you think any (that you can identify) could be used in articles, or at least would be worth uploading to Commons.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 01:31, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I didn't pick up on this when I got the chance, but unfortunately it seems whatever pictures were there are no longer. Bugboy52.4 ¦ =-= 17:13, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

With respect to your comment "I note that there are many more comet articles currently using the en-dash", this is solely due to them incorrectly, and without discussion, being renamed recently, in what I refer to as the great endash folly of 2011. Apteva (talk) 00:35, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That’s as it may be, but I still don’t think it’s appropriate to put up a ‘test case’ when there are evidently quite a few editors who agree with the “folly”. IMO some sort of consensus needs to be reached and reflected at WT:AT.

Have you sought an opinion from the Astronomy project? (If any editors from there have been involved in the other recent discussions I haven’t noticed them identifying themselves.)—Odysseus1479 (talk) 04:41, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This was not intended to be a "test case". I checked Wikipedia talk:MOS and the last post on the issue was that it should be a hyphen, and two weeks later there was no response. So I figured it was a settled issue. I don't think anyone at WP:AT disagrees that it should follow common use whatever that may be. It is only the folks over at WP:MOS that were promoting an endash. Apteva (talk) 04:55, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

thank you dear Odysseus for your explaning and help. i just have sent a message to dr.Izady, he did agree the non commercial using of the maps in WP, and we will do that soon.

happy new year Sagapane (talk) 19:15, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Same to you, and you’re welcome!

I’m afraid a non-commercial licence for the map will not be sufficient. I’m not expert in these matters, but my understanding is that the only conditions acceptable to WP are 1) requiring attribution and 2) that further copying or distribution is to be done only under a compatible licence. That is, the strongest protection offered to contributors is the Creative Commons-Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 licence. This does not forbid commercial reuse, but it does require that the author or creator be credited. I hope Dr. Izady will be amenable to granting such a licence.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 22:27, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

thank you very much for your answer. happy new year !!!Sagapane (talk) 23:13, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you good sir, Thank you very much. I really appreciate your valuable contribution to the article. I was amazed by the effort and critical thinking that you have put into the copy edit. Above all, I learned a lot from you. Better words, better phrases, better ways to link sentences etc. So once again, thank you very much. (According to our customs a proper thank should have three “Thank you”s)

At the same time I think that I owe you an apology and some explanations from my part.

• Regarding “Lascarin”, cross-reference links, map captions and Bible rock. I agree with you.
• Portuguese names: I’ll ask a Portuguese editor to look in to the names.
• Choices of quote or cquote: Actually the reason is bit naïve. I wanted to make the Kandy terrain photo more prominent since it describes the terrain better than the text. Former quote template attracted less attention. (See, naïve.)
• Regarding Kekiri: A huge negligence from my part. I’m ashamed. Thanks for saving my honor and credibility.
• Vanguard: Again my fault. I should have described it in the text. Referring to a battle in 1557, Fernao de Queyroz state that, “…According to the practice in Ceylon due to the paucity of soldiers they called it (vanguard) the advance guard (dianteyra) and called the center (batatha) the vanguard, thus altering the military terms.” But it won’t make a much difference. Although historians like Paul E Peiris and S G Perera used the altered military terms to keep the historical authenticity the newer scholars like C. Gaston Perera and Channa W’sinhe are using the classical terms (vanguard, canter, and rearguard) to avoid confusion. (Same reason you mentioned)
• Year in the article title: Actually I personally believe the year should be mentioned in a battle title. You’ll understand when you see the list of Battles involving Portugal. Titles with a year make better sense as it gives the feeling about the era. So I have decided to keep the year for the moment and I’ll take other editors opinion at Wiki project Military history.

Once again, Thanks.Nishadhi (talk) 08:20, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the kind words, and for the interesting article in an area that’s not well covered in popular histories.

Regarding the Portuguese “vanguard”, that’s a detail of which I was quite unaware. It might well be worth restoring, especially for the benefit of those readers who may be motivated to further reading in the period. Perhaps the contemporary terms (are they Port. or Sinhala?) could be used, in italics, with a parenthetical explanation where they’re introduced. This might also be worth bringing up at MilHist, while you’re at it, to see how this issue has been treated elsewhere (if at all).

As for the quotation, while I see your point about distraction I might counter with the general observation that a stronger break in the flow of text can encourage the reader to pause and look around. OTOH in this particular case there’s already a section heading immediately above, giving the quote a certain prominence even without the ‘decorations’.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 23:28, 20 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hallo! Thank you for added historic FIBA key at Wikimedia Commons. Your picture File:Basketball keys.svg is much better than mine File:Basketball keys.png and this file: File:Basketball key.png. I express my respect! Very good job! :) Thanks again! Best Regards Mariusz Swornóg (talk) 17:04, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not at all; since I already had done drawings for the courts, per a vectorization request at the Illustration Workshop quite a while ago, it was easy to extract the elements. (This demonstrates one of the advantages of SVG & similar formats: that parts of a drawing can be isolated, combined, or modified much more easily than can be done with raster images.) Anyway, I’m glad you approve of the result. I already have a couple of illustrations on my to-do list, but if there’s anything else I can help with—and you’re not in a hurry—feel free to ask.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 02:22, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the answer. You're very nice. You're right. SVG graphics are better. I'm really interested in basketball terminology and FIBA rules of basketball. I'm always very happy, when somebody add good basketball graphics. If I have any question, I will feel free to ask. I wish there are at Wikipedia more users like you. :) Mariusz Swornóg (talk) 09:23, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

	The Copyeditor's Barnstar
	I am impressed by your wonderful ce of Jainism. You justified topic and its importance. Thanks a lot. Nizil (talk) 22:00, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

		The Cleanup Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to Odysseus1479 for copy editing articles totalling over 12,000 words in the GOCE January copy edit drive. Thank you very much for participating! Dianna (talk) 22:00, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

		Leaderboard Award—5K articles—4th Place (tied)
		This Leaderboard Barnstar is awarded to Odysseus1479 for copy editing two articles of 5,000 words or more during the GOCE January copy edit drive. Your contributions are much appreciated! Dianna (talk) 22:00, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the copy edit. Moagim (talk) 11:57, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		Thanks for participating in the Guild of Copy Editors' February 2013 blitz! For being one of only two editors to top 10,000 words in a week, please accept this award from a very appreciative Guild. We hope you'll be back in March! —Torchiest talkedits 13:41, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Guild of Copy Editors April 2013 events newsletter We finished the April blitz and are preparing to start our May backlog elimination drive. The April 2013 events newsletter is now ready for review. – Your project coordinators: Torchiest, BDD, and Miniapolis Sign up for the May drive! To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 04:43, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your feedback at #Carry over from #New_template thread.

I took a look at your user page and noticed that you had declared yourself a PowerPC Mac user. If this is still the case you might find Linux MintPPC to be of interest. It did wonders for a 333MHz G3 iMac my Mom had.

--Kevjonesin (talk) 15:59, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the suggestion, but offhand I don’t see what benefit there would be to changing my G5’s Tiger OS–what exactly do you mean by “wonders”? I can already run a variety of ’nix applications from a terminal or under X11. The main reason I chose that machine, rather than waiting a few weeks for its Intel-based successors to come out, was so I could continue to run “Classic” Mac applications, especially FreeHand. Although it has some problems with ‘new-fangled’ Web content and Microsoft documents e.g., the G5 still does OK here and at most of the other sites I frequent.–Odysseus1479 (talk) 05:28, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well the G3 333MHz iMac (w/ 320 MB of RAM) was unable to run Tiger (OS 10.4). But obviously that's not a problem for your G5. Come to think of it, It was after I added the Enlightenment (E17) GUI that things really came together. While still not spry, it became usable. LXDE had been lagging on such meager resources.

There might still be some advantages, for you, to having MintPPC as a dual boot option though. On a separate hard drive would be simplest, but it can also be set up to share a disk with Tiger. It would deal with "‘new-fangled’ Web content", receive current updates for most packages, and likely run 'more spryly' (demand less CPU and RAM). Especially with the Enlightenment option. Document software (like LibreOffice) could be installed to handle modern formats.

Really depends on how comfortable/savvy you are with computers as to whether I'd advise you to give it a go. One doesn't have to be any sort of Jedi guru or anything, but some understanding (vocabulary) beyond that of a casual app user is needed. I suspect that you already have such.

I'd be happy to share more detail from my experience and advise as I can if it's of further interest to you. Might be best WP:talk_page etiquette if we shifted to a subpage (or email) for that though as it's not directly Wikipedia related.

--Kevjonesin (talk) 10:27, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, and thanks again. It wouldn’t hurt for me to learn something about Linux … I‘ll think on it some more and drop you a line if I get serious about the idea.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 03:43, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I copied the above dialog to PowerPC Linux#Initial Conversation. It occurred to me that if I get around to adding some links and some more notes that I may well end up with the base of an article. --Kevjonesin (talk) 19:50, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was about to email you regarding a few more Linux on PowerPC thoughts when I noticed your "WikiGrahpist" icon.

I've got some experience using the GIMP to alter photos (fun example here) and such, but no experience doing vector graphics for charts or the like. Anyway, if folks need help with cropping, color tweaking, editing out (or in) details, etc, I may enjoy helping out the WikiGrahpics project.

Do you think my skills might fit in? And what's your own experience been like?

p.s. I went ahead and skipped the email and opted for picking up the PPC Linux topic on a sub of my talk page at PowerPC Linux#Morning Musing I've kinda' become hooked on wikimarkup. :  } --Kevjonesin (talk) 12:56, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I haven’t been around there much recently, as I’ve got a bit of a backlog of drawing projects. If you’d like to help with raster images, check out the Photography Workshop. The requests posted there range from simple cropping, level adjustments, or removal of extraneous markings, to extensive restorative work. All three boards (the other two are for illustrations and maps) have a Top section, which is a template populated more or less automatically with straightforward or routine tasks taken from a queue; below that are individual requests, often more complicated, with related discussions. IME most requesters are quite appreciative, and of course editing in these areas is usually uncontroversial.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 19:03, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• Sweet. Just the sort of answer I needed. Photography Workshop sounds like the place for me. Both to contribute some GIMP skills and as an 'uncontroversial editing' refuge when words get tiresome. Thanks much. --Kevjonesin (talk) 19:31, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Odysseus. Please do not simply remove links from pages as you did here without taking a moment to find where the linked page or tool server stats have gone. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:15, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I did not remove it, just tagged it as dead, as I got a 404 error. Where a server or domain still exists I do generally try searching or browsing a site-map to see where something may have been moved, to repair the link instead of tagging it (or deleting, if it’s in the “See also“ section of an article and not a cited source). But I have no idea how to search the tool server, and “ec” seemed a very unpromising search-term anyway. I would appreciate it if you could point me to an explanation of how that’s done.—Odysseus1479 01:15, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My bad, you did not remove it - that's just a custom template I use. Many tool server links got changed recently. You opted in for this yourself so you can check back and see how it's done here. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:56, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I have used that tool (well, often just tried—it seems only slightly less likely than not to time out, but that’s different from getting an immediate 404), having found its link on my “Contributions” page. The essay already links to the edit-counter several times with the hypertext “pie chart”, so in context I thought something “in addition” must be, well, somewhere else. Anyway, what I don’t follow is how you get from “soxred93” to “tparis”, or from “ec” to “pcount”. Is there a list of tools with descriptions somewhere, from which I would have been able to infer that the same one must have been meant?—Odysseus1479 04:19, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There's a list at Wikipedia:WikiProject edit counters but I have no idea how the toolserver works. I do know that X! tools were teken over by TParis so they will have different URLs. I wrote that admin advice essay quite a while back and I haven't updated it much since, so I only get to know about issues when someone like you points them out. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:28, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your message. Yes, best to remain vigilant but not jump to hasty conclusions. I read the guidelines and think I was overreacting on what is only a hunch. Yours ever, Czar Brodie (talk) 07:36, 27 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Guild of Copy Editors May 2013 backlog elimination drive wrap-up newsletter We have completed our May backlog elimination drive. The drive wrap-up newsletter is now ready for review. – Your project coordinators: Torchiest, BDD, and Miniapolis Sign up for the June blitz! To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 05:14, 5 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re your comment at Stfg's page "Fowler and, AFAICT, Hart disagree with CMOS":

• From New Hart's Rules (Oxford University Press, 2005): "In US practice, commas and full points are set inside the closing quotation mark regardless of whether they are part of the quoted material ... This style is also followed in much of British fiction and journalism."(p.155) GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 01:15, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• From Fowler's Modern English Usage (Oxford University Press, 2004): "All signs of punctuation used with words in quotation marks must be placed according to sense. If an extract ends with a point ... let that point be included before the closing quotation mark; but not otherwise."(p.646) GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 01:15, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I’m pretty sure the original Hart's Rules did not address “US practice“ at all, because its first publication was intended for use by the OUP. I agree, however, that your quote from the modern version indicates agreement with CMOS. OTOH Fowler’s “according to sense” and “but not otherwise” directly contradict them both.—Odysseus1479 02:29, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's a very good point about the contradiction. From my reading, it seems that the full entry on quotation marks in Fowler's advocates a situational approach, rather than a one-size fits all rule, i.e. Fowler's seems to contradict itself. Cheers! GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 03:03, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Despite the way he’s sometimes caricatured, as a rulebook-wielding prescriptivist, Fowler’s positions are usually quite nuanced, albeit opinionated. BTW quite a lot of the recent “Fowler‘s“, including the QUOTATION MARKS article, is actually by Burchfield; it’s become something of a franchise like the various “Webster’s” dictionaries (or the “Roget’s” thesaurus that’s ordered alphabetically instead of conceptually, missing the entire point IMO). I’ve seen Fowler fans on Usenet refer to the third edition of MEU in such terms as “the Burchfield abomination” (but not because of this particular issue AFAICT). Anyway, where do you see a contradiction?—Odysseus1479 03:35, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I see a contradiction between what reads like an unequivocal prescription: "If an extract ends with a point ... let that point be included before the closing quotation mark", and what seems like a situational editor discretion advisement: "If the quotation is intermediate between a single word and a complete sentence, or it is not clear whether it is a complete sentence or not, judgement must be used in placing the final point." GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 03:49, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think that can be resolved by interpreting that “extract” in the introductory section as the portion of the original text you wish to quote; the matter of judgement in case (ii) is whether or not to include the terminal punctuation in said portion. But I may be reading too much into the choice of words.

FWIW Fowler himself covers the question in much less detail; aside from discussion of examples, and the summary recommendation I quoted on Stfg’s page, his description of LQ is pretty well covered by “put [stops] outside except when they actually form part of the quotation.“ He doesn’t address the ‘corner case’ where a quoted fragment ends with (or, depending on how you look at it, is followed by) a stop. My own inclination, as you might infer from my comment at WT:MOS, would be to put a period inside the marks either where the quotation could stand as a complete sentence or when I let it finish my own sentence for me, so to speak, but outside the marks otherwise.—Odysseus1479 05:38, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I tend to agree with you regarding Fowler's ambiguous use of the term extract. However, if by extract he exclusively means a complete sentence, then the statement is embarrassingly redundant with the whole of the entry, which explains in detail that a quoted complete sentence should include the full stop within the quote marks (perhaps this speaks to your above point regarding Fowler's recent move towards the Webster/Roget business model), but who would even argue that a full complete sentence quotation should not include the full stop where the original source had placed it; isn't that one of the more obvious editorial choices? Also, Fowler elaborates to some length that the issue is not resolved in the sense that editorial inconsistency and variation are common amongst publishers. My main issue is that he is obviously in the minority in that regard if you look at the multitude of style guides that outright disagree with him. Nice chatting with you, BTW. Cheers! GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 06:00, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Likewise! But no, I don‘t think Burchfield’s “extract” is necessarily a complete sentence; it could be anything from a word to several sentences. And terminal punctuation is left out in the middle of a framing sentence: “I shall return” was MacArthur’s slogan. LQ in general, whether Hart‘s, Fowler’s, or Burchfield’s version, is at odds with most current style guides, as many discussions at WT:MOS will show—including some recent agitation for its restriction to articles that otherwise use British English. I don‘t think it’s a matter of national English varieties myself, but we‘ll see what happens …—Odysseus1479 06:32, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree that this is not really a WP:ENGVAR issue per se and I also agree that it will most likely boil down to that for most. I am all for globalization and respect for national writing styles, but in the end the Wikipedia servers are in Florida, not London. GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 07:24, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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