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	Philadelphia is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Article milestones Date Process Result July 31, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted

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Redirect talk page (when page was a redirect to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) Oct 2003 - Mar 2006 Sep 2005 - Jul 2006 Jul 2006 - Nov 2007 Nov 2007 - current

On Dec. 2, 2009, the Census Bureau revised Philadelphia's 2008 population estimate of 1,447,395 to the new number 1,540,351 - a gain of almost 93,000 people. This is significant, as it reverses Philadelphia's 50 year trend of population loss.

This has already been corrected in the top sidebar, but the lead paragraph states that population "was over 1.4 million," please revise to 1.5 million. Also, the old (incorrect) 2008 estimate is still in the "historical populations" table - it should be changed to 1,540,351.

Here is a news article about the change: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20091202_Hey__Philly__You_re_bigger_.html

Phillies2010 (talk) 20:10, 5 December 2009 (UTC)AJF[reply]

Somebody has also altered the population figures in the population numbers table. It says the city has grown by 0.9% with the respective population total, but on the actual census website, the 2009 estimate is 2.0% and 1,547,297. What is currently there is straight vandalism since that data is found nowhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cameron8782 (talk • contribs) 22:06, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is this correct. By default you must be talking before 1776. My home City, Bristol UK, was the 2nd city of what was then Great Bitain (ie before Ireland was legally incorporated to make the United Kingdom). It's population at the time was Circa 60,000 and Philly's was, according to your own article, 28,522 in 1790, 14 years after the War of Independance, when it ceased to be part of the Empire.

In 1755 the population in Ednburgh was 57,195. The Population of Glasgow was 42,000 in 1780. The population of Liverpool 77,000 by the year 1801 (first official census) and thus would have undoubtedly been higher than 28,522 in 1790.

I think statement you have made is incorrect.

Regards

ajenkins 12-23-09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.6.149.27 (talk) 12:04, 23 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The claim that Philadelphia was the second largest city in the British Empire is not true (and not close either). I am removing it from the introduction. Philadelphia's history from a community of 600 people to its departure from the British Empire spans less than one hundred years. Even extending the City boundaries to include all of Philadelphia County (matching the current City), this claim is still off by orders of magnititude. Compare Philadelphia's post-Empire 1790 population of 28,522 with colonial British India populations of 300,000 in 1790 Madras (now Chennai), and 140,000 in 1764 Bombay (now Mumbai). I could not locate this claim at the referenced National Geographic website, but in any event, the claim is not true (which would explain its disappearance from that reliable and respected source). ChrisJBenson (talk) 19:34, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

National Geographic and numerous other reliable sources make the same claim. I'm not certain what is going on: odd definitions of "city" or "British Empire", Bombay being split up repeatedly over the years, or whatever. However, two sources give a hint. UPenn, in an article about Pennsylvania Hospital and an article in JAMA, also about Pennsylvania Hospital, both qualify the claim, saying Philadelphia was "by 1776 the second largest English-speaking city in the British Empire". - SummerPhD (talk) 01:53, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the helpful re-interpretation references. They even provide the year 1776 for the modified claim's applicability, but also exceed the official census value of 1790 (even after adjusting for black people counted as 3/5ths each). Nevertherless, as cited above and verifiable elsewhere, there were several larger English-speaking cities in the British Empire at the time. In 1700, the population of Dublin was over 50,000 whilst Philadelphia's was 600. Edinburgh's population reached 50,000 early in the 18th century, and was nearing 100,000 by the end of that century. Glasgow's historical nickname was "Second City of the British Empire". Bristol was certainly larger than Philadlphia throughout the 1700s. Philadelphia's official census population had only reached 25,522 by 1790 (after leaving the British Empire). There's just such a huge disparity with London's population of nearly one million at that time. If the claim about Philadelphia is intended to include only English-speaking cities and exclude town and cities in England, Scotland and Ireland, then it wouldn't be "second after London". Without being contrived or contentious, I think it is interesting that "in the mid 1700s, Philadelphia was larger than Boston and New York combined". --ChrisJBenson (talk) 09:14, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The "statistic" should be left out until we know where it really came from and what it really means. I'd guess that it had some factual basis but was qualified (perhaps implicitly). The qualification was likely "what was the British Empire" in 1776? Pretty obvious from above that it was meant to exclude the British Ilses. I doubt India was included. Britain's first real "colony" there was not until 1757, and even then it was company-run. Perhaps the originators of the "statistic" did not include India in the Empire until Victoria was proclaimed Empress of India? That pretty much would leave only the Caribbean and the mainland Americas and a few spots in Africa. Given that, my question is "what was the 1st largest city in the British Empire?" Likely the stat was "correct" and in a reliable source once, and has been passed down without thinking, or with improper modifications ever since. Smallbones (talk) 13:53, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I researched this a few years ago when this little factoid was suggested as a candidate for "Did you know ..." on the Philadelphia Portal. Here's what I found:

** … that in 1775, Philadelphia was the second-largest city in the British Empire?--Spikebrennan 13:47, 31 July 2006 (UTC) (actually, this may be an urban legend)

• • • This page from the Smithsonian magazine says it was third, after London and Dublin. This page, fictional but apparently

well-researched, says third behind London and Edinburgh. But National Geographic says second-largest. The state of Pennsylvania says second-largest English-speaking city in the world; were they then speaking Gaelic in Dublin and Edinburgh?--BillFlis 17:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

--BillFlis (talk) 15:37, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed this claim. Each of the sources contradicted all of the others(!). Verification of the claim with two additional restrictive clauses would have been original research. Thanks for all the helpful references. --ChrisJBenson (talk) 05:31, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey all-

I've greatly enjoyed reading the article and seeing all of the work put forth to make it truly informative. I have one suggestion for improvement: photos. Compared to other American cities, and especially compared to foreign locals, Philly's pictures seem a bit lacking in quality and coverage. I thank those who have contributed their own private photos to the entry, and acknowledge that it's hard to find high-quality, non-copyrighted pictures on the internet.

I've been wondering what others would think of using some photos off The Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation website: [1]. They seem to have some great, high quality images of both the skyline and various sites in the city. The images are high res and are free for use online as long as the tourism corp and photographer are credited. Just thinking of two examples:

1) The main image in the top right of the article, taken from the Schuykill. I appreciate the user for taking and posting a high-res image, but I'm wondering if a photo from the Schuykill is the best option for the main image people are hit with when they arrive at Philadelphia's wiki entry. On the articles for other cities, they typically get more of a "macro" view of the city from a vantage point at a greater distance. Think Seattle with the skyline and Space Needle, or San Francisco from the Golden Gate. Other cities may get a montage of various images featuring both the skyline and major sites, such the entries for NYC and Chicago. While the Schuykill is an important river and the featured image does show a bit of skyline, we don't even get Boathouse Row, and certainly no sense that Philadelphia is a major metropolis located on a much larger river, the Delaware. I would suggest an image taken from a bit further out that displays more of the cityscape, such as this: [2], or this: [3]. On the other hand, perhaps some sort of montage that covers the skyline and major sites like City Hall from Broad St, the Art Museum, Ben Franklin Parkway, Boathouse Row, the Love Statue, the Liberty Ball, Independence Mall/Hall, etc.?

2) Independence Hall. The current image shows the building through the glass of the Liberty Bell pavilion, there is a glare from the glass, and the planting bed in front of the pavilion is only half-planted with tulips, mostly displaying mud. Hardly a fitting image for such an esteemed national monument and a UNESCO World Heritage Site. The image could be changed to something like this: [4]. These comments pertain to the Independence Hall article itself, but since the building is such an important Philly icon, are obviously pertinent to this city's article as well.

Well, those are my thoughts. Do people feel the same or is the consensus that the article's photos are good the way they stand? Southjers87 (talk) 02:31, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I definitely agree with you, the skyline photo in particular is awful. To capture more of the city, it could be an aerial photo, like what New York City has (something akin to [5], or it could be a more complete, clearer view of the skyline. The view from the South Street Bridge, for example, lays the more distinctive features of the skyline out nicely: [6]. If we needed a free image, I could easily run over to the South Street Bridge and take one. I also agree about the Independence Hall photo. It wouldn't be so bad were it not for the empty planting bed. The only problem with the image you linked is that it is of the South side of the building, that is, the back. We really ought to have a photo of the North Side. AlexDitto 06:30, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The current text states that February is the driest month. The corresponding figures show that October is the driest month. February may have the lowest monthly precipitation total, but that is because it is three days shorter than October. The average daily precipitation during February is 2.49mm. The same figure for October is 2.25mm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marmocet (talk • contribs) 11:36, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

February has the lowest total monthly precipitation. However, the wording of the article (on 8 June 2011) correctly reflects that average daily precipitation is lower in October than February (whether 28 or 29 days). --ChrisJBenson (talk) 21:57, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Philadelphia has not a humid subtropical climate because the thrue humid subtropical climate limit is in Washington D.C Area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:39AF:800:2193:3B7:4476:C14A (talk) 09:35, 22 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why mention NYC in this article? Philly is not even in the NYC area and is it's own major metro region that has nothing to do with NYC. So why is it here? I know of no other major city that tries to relate itself to another. Maybe Boston with NYC, but Boston and Philly have Napoleon complex. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.89.86 (talk) 19:55, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• What? I'm not sure what you're talking about, but mentioning other cities in the Northeast Megalopolis seems legitimate...nf utvol (talk) 12:36, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not really, because there is another state in front of Philadelphia, so mentioning a city over a state in front of you is not needed. How come the article did not state how far away it was from Baltimore or D.C. using that logic? That line should be taken out unless Philiadelphia feels that it needs New York in order to be a legit city... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.213.76 (talk) 06:29, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The reason it mentions New York City is mainly for geographical purposes. Even if Philly is a city in its own right, remember that there are people in this world who read this who might know where New York City is (pretty much everyone) but wouldn't immediately know the longitude and latitude of Philadelphia. Besides, the fact that the two are close to each other is notable. --Apollo1758 (talk) 21:49, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What happened to the skyline photo? --DThomsen8 (talk) 14:56, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Old photo restored; I don't know what the guy who changed it was trying to do, but it wasn't working. AlexiusHoratius 16:45, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I created a new montage image for the article’s intro, which I hope addresses the concerns that people had about previous ones that had been used (poor quality photos of SEPTA and cheese steak stands, etc.). I think this one captures the historical and cultural importance of the city, while maintaining a decent skyline photo for the top. I would have liked to show some more recent things in the city, but I couldn’t find good photographs of any. Let me know what you think… --Jleon (talk) 02:32, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's great! A vast improvement over both the skyline photo by itself and the previous montage. 76.99.126.180 (talk) 03:19, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is a great improvement over past tries at montage. However, I am opposed to using the Independence Hall picture because it taken through a window. (the window at the Liberty Bell Center) Medvedenko (talk) 03:38, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Now we don't have a photo in the article, and we don't have an alternative one here. Fix, please!--DThomsen8 (talk) 11:04, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, it got deleted because of something with the copyright tags, even though I sourced all the original images. I'll give it another try later, and I'll see if I can make it work. For now, I went back to the skyline pic. --Jleon (talk) 13:21, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it necessary to have a montage photo? ccwaters (talk) 15:44, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not neccessary, but I think most would agree that it is preferable to just a skyline photo. Cities are more than just office buildings, and a montage helps to summarize the basic character and major landmarks of a place, the same way the intro paragraph summarizes the basic facts about it. --Jleon (talk) 18:47, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I uploaded it again, and hopefully got the source tagging better this time. I didn't put it back into the article yet so as not to create a disruption if it gets deleted again. I'm open to suggested changes, but just keep in mind that there are a limited number of quality photos available to use. The picture of Independence Hall might have been shot through a window, but it is still, by far, the best photo of that on wiki commons. Since it is one of the most important landmarks in the whole country, I think it should definitely be represented in the montage. --Jleon (talk) 00:38, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. First off, I think the current photo's aspect ratio is unacceptable. If you scroll up you'll see its placement was the result of a drawn out tiff between two editors last summer. It should be replaced. I don't think the answer is a montage. I really don't understand the need to try to represent the diversity of a city in a 300x200 pixel box while there is plenty of real estate to illustrate such different aspects of the city within the context of the article. A skyline image is an overview, much like the lead paragraph. How do you conclude that most people prefer a montage? Has there been broader discussion of this? In respect to this article, there been a few random attempts to add a montage over the past few years, but its always, by consensus, gone back to skyline. ccwaters (talk) 14:09, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The previous ones were rejected because they were pretty awful, and the past discussions really revolved around the content of them rather than the need for one to begin with. The reason I stated that most prefer it is because plenty of other major cities have added one with very little contention over it. Anway, what image are you proposing to use? I would be happy to place it up for a vote, and so far this discussion shows three people in favor of some form of montage, and one in favor of just a single skyline photo. --Jleon (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was the photographer of the City Hall south elevation photo that's in the lower left of your montage. In my opinion, my photograph is kind of lousy and I wouldn't recommend using it-- it looks tilted on the right side; the buildings on both sides of Broad Street are obscured by shadow, and the facade of the building is covered by scaffolding which has been removed since I took the photo. Can't a better photo of City Hall be found? Spikebrennan (talk) 16:19, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I really haven't found any that are better. There are several close-ups of the pinnacle that are nice photos, but I think they would look very bland in the montage. I agree that the scaffolding is a drawback, but I still like the way it is framed between the buildings and that you can see a little bit of the street. If you take a better picture of it, please share it and I'll put it in. Otherwise, I might be able to take one myself this summer. --Jleon (talk) 20:07, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Philadelphia is approximately 90 miles from New York City not 46 miles as stated in the article.

Ferdinand Manlio, D.O. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.144.127.75 (talk) 22:08, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This calculation depends entirely on what two points you are using. If you use some arbitrary location within the downtown areas of the cities, you will likely get around 90 miles. I believe the 46 mile figure is from the edge of Northeast Philly to the Southwestern tip of Staten Island. While I think this one is better to use, I do know that many highway signs in PA and NJ use Manhattan for the basis of their mile calculation. Anyway, I don't care what number is used, but I think a brief explanation should be provided with it. --Jleon (talk) 16:32, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is simply no reputable source that measures distance from one city to the next as being from, for instance, the northeastern-most tip of Philadelphia to the southwestern-most tip of Staten Island, New York City. Standard geographical convention is to measure distance between the center-points of two cities (which, often, are in the "downtown" areas; or, as termed in Philadelphia, "Center City"). It's truly bizarre and simply wrong in any commonly understood sense to state that it's "46 miles" from Phila. to NYC. And FWIW, GoogleMaps and MapQuest have it as approx. 85 miles, and Rand McNally has it (measured slightly differently) as 95 miles. Are you really going to maintain that YOU can measure distance more authoritatively than the very websites and companies that SPECIALIZE in measuring distance? How in the world is Wikipedia going to stand by its claim that it's 46 miles and be taken seriously? Please forgive me for saying, but it pretty much just feels like you're being irrationally stubborn. steve04074 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve04074 (talk • contribs) 02:00, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone change the distance then? Even if you measure creatively, 46 miles couldn't be true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.209.20.158 (talk) 02:56, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is not even close to 46 miles, I'd say 80 miles is a better estimate to use on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.116.1.78 (talk) 17:43, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My GoogleMaps search lists the distance as 95.3 miles; clearly (as stated earlier), it depends on your point of reference. Ntj2 (talk) 19:24, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can somebody plese remove the advertisement of tastykake, etc. from this page's cuisine/food section?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 56.0.84.24 (talk) 17:37, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Tasykake is a brand name and yes Tastykakes, water ice (and, arguably others) are junk food. However, all of those listed seem to be high profile foods associated with Philly. That said, I do see why Le Bec-Fin is singled out for mention. What about Starr, Pat's/Geno's, etc.? - SummerPhD (talk) 19:21, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

{{editsemiprotected}}

"The city, which lies approximately 46 miles southwest of New York City,[4] is the nation's fourth-largest urban area by population and its fourth-largest consumer media market as ranked by the Nielsen Media Research."

"The city, which lies approximately 46 miles southwest of New York City,[4] is the nation's fourth-largest urban area by population and its fourth-largest consumer media market as ranked by the Nielsen Media Research."

Please change "46 miles"m to "97 miles"

Source: Google Maps/directions-Philadelphia, PA to New York, NY

Troy19144 (talk) 17:20, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the previous discussion. --Jleon (talk) 18:06, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done:Normally when a distance is measured between two cities, the point used to locate the city is its city hall. That may seem somewhat arbitrary, but it is the conventional practice. The latitude and logitude for each city is conventionally that which is at the city hall. The distance is also normally the straight line distance and not the distance travelled driving between those two points, but 97 is certainly much closer to reality than 46. A quick survey of website give answers ranging from 72 to 106, with most in the high 80s or low 90s. The best source would be the USGS's Elevations and Distances in the United States available at most libraries. Celestra (talk) 18:56, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how using city halls instead of boundary lines is closer to "reality." Do you have any sources on this practice? It certainly defies convention on any other scale. Highway markers use state boundaries for state distances, and that must be the case for small towns as well that don't have city halls. --Jleon (talk) 20:01, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A static point is more useful in idetifying a place than irregular, changing boundaries, but the realistic comment is more about the driving distance from google, 97, being closer to the distance the various web sources gave, 70s or 100s, than is the existing boundary-to-boundary number, 47. I'm not sure where you could learn about this convention, but you can see it in practice at maps.google.com when you specify a city. The discussion about convention is sort of moot, though, since nobody should measure this for themselves; that's original research. The USGS book, or whatever reference we end up using, will simply provide a number of miles between those two cities. Celestra (talk) 22:21, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

{{editsemiprotected}}

The article states that Philly is 46 miles South of New York, but should state it is 90 miles South of New York City.

173.170.135.114 (talk) 01:58, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Per above. jonkerz♠ 02:06, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

{{editsemiprotected}} Please Change:

The city, which lies about 46 miles southwest of New York City

To:

The city, which lies about 95 miles southwest of New York City (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=New+York+City&daddr=40.386535,-74.571165+to:Philadelphia,+PA&hl=en&geocode=FR1AbQIdK8KW-yk7CD_TpU_CiTFi_nfhBo8LyA;Fec_aAIdYyKO-ykJ9SBBR93DiTHnUPME63NX7g;Fc-fYQIdcxeF-w&gl=us&mra=ls&sll=39.952335,-75.163789&sspn=0.011432,0.013132&ie=UTF8&z=9&via=1)

BartBacak (talk) 04:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Per above and below and... what? SpigotMap 13:20, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.--mono 05:11, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Using Google Earth, it appears to be about 81 miles from Philadelphia City Hall to New York City Hall as the crow flies. The furthest extensions of both cities come much closer together, as Philadelphia extends far to the Northeast of Center City Philadelphia, and Staten Island extends far to the Southwest of Downtown Manhattan. The distance from the northeasternmost extension of Philadelphia to the southernmost extension of Staten Island does appear to be about 45 miles. But that seems like a ridiculous way of going about it. If we're talking about reliable sources, what reliable sources use such an absurd definition for the distance between the two cities? john k (talk) 13:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

your distance for Philadelphia from New York is incorrect. Philly is approximately 90 miles southwest of New York City...not 46 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.56.196.181 (talk) 10:06, 3 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:GardenStreetBridgeSchuylkillRiverSkylinePhiladelphiaPennsylvania.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on July 4, 2010. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2010-07-04. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! howcheng {chat} 20:23, 3 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of the day

The skyline of Pennsylvania's largest city, Philadelphia. Visible are Center City with the Comcast Center on the left bank of the Schuylkill River and the 30th Street Station with the Cira Centre on the right. Philadelphia was once the largest city in the original 13 American colonies, the location of the signing of the Declaration of Independence, and served as one of the nation's many capitals during the Revolutionary War and after.Photo: Massimo Catarinella

Archive – More featured pictures...

The montage captions lists "Philadelphia Art Museum," but the name of the institution is actually "Philadelphia Museum of Art." It should be changed to reflect that.

I just added "N. W. Ayer & Son|Advertising agency" as a first in the Innovations section, but looking over the list, perhaps some changes are needed. Much as I admire the First Bank of the United States, was it the first bank in the United States, or even the first bank chartered by the United States rather than a particular state? Some of the earlier banks were also in Philadelphia. If the term Bank is examined more closely, perhaps Philadelphia can claim more than one "first bank" by being more specific. If other editors do not leap in, perhaps I will do it, but right now I have been busy with other contributions, including a new Philadelphia Parking Authority article to replace the redirect to Parking Wars. --DThomsen8 (talk) 14:43, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please Change:

The city, which lies about 46 miles southwest of New York City

To:

The city, which lies about 100 miles southwest of New York City (please the City of Philadelphia's own website http://www.visitphilly.com/getting-here/ Surely a reputable source)

Depends how you measure. From the cities' closest points -- northeastern Philly to southwestern Staten Island -- they are about 46 miles apart as the crow flies. From their downtown city halls -- Philly's Center City and Manhattan -- they are about 85 miles apart as the crow flies. The only way you get to "about 100 miles" is in driving distance from city hall to city hall. PRRfan (talk) 16:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As someone mentioned already, using some tool to measure yourself is original research. That's why I think it would be a good idea to just go with what the City of Philadelphia publishes as the distance, which is 100 miles. The city also has a map (the first link on http://www.visitphilly.com/maps-directions), which lists the distance as 90mi. If the article says "about 100 miles" I think we're still safe. In any case, 46mi is not an acceptable or reasonable number for that distance. It is not a figure that any reputable source uses, and certainly not one that is of much use to anyone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.211.101.117 (talk) 17:32, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder how distances between cities are generally measured for Wikipedia. At any rate, I'd suggest you make the edit yourself (maybe create a username beforehand) and let's see whether that sparks further discussion. PRRfan (talk) 18:05, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It may be appropriate to move some of the historical information in the opening paragraphs to the History or other section. The concepts could be summarised in a sentence or two. And then increase modern information about Philadelphia.

This is just a suggestion at this stage, for readability compared with other cities.

Sroen (talk) 23:34, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Being from Philly (South27thStreet) I find it very disrespectful that whoever is in charge of this page didn't include our boy Cassidy, next time be thorough in your research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.129.87.216 (talk) 18:20, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After a bit of research, I figured on that you probably meant Cassidy (rapper). You'll note that (under Philadelphia#Notable_people) the article links to List_of_people_from_Philadelphia. On that page you will find he is listed. In short, we didn't dis him by leaving him out, though we have certainly spelled out his contribution to society in the article about him. - SummerPhD (talk) 19:50, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

1. REDIRECT Template:Edit semi-protected/preload

This quote is incorrect: <The city, which lies about 45 miles southwest of New York City,[4]^ http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3985796>

Distance between NYC and Philadelphia is most accurately described as the distance, as the crow flies, from the center of one city to another. If you look on Google Maps you will find this distance is about 80 miles. See link: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4034678

Jfichman (talk) 18:54, 12 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Philadelphia is central to African American history. Many of its larger suburbs such as Chester, Pennsylvania; Wilmington, Delaware; Camden, New Jersey; and Trenton, New Jersey (sometimes included in the New York metropolitan area) have African American majorities. This community has been large since before the Great Migration, and despite area civil rights gains, continues to be affected by poverty and high crime. The area, in common with most of Pennsylvania, also has a very large population of Italian Americans.

This paragraph is racist and misleading. Wilmington, Delaware, Camden, New Jersey, and Trenton, New Jersey are NOT suburbs of (African Americans) Pennsylvania. They are separate states. You also do not list the popular African American suburbs in the area that are not "affected by poverty and crime". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.166.101.110 (talk) 04:01, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The distance between Philadelphia and New York City is incorrectly listed as 45 miles. The shortest distance between Philadelphia and New York City is approximately 89 miles. If using major highways the distance is almost 100 miles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.12.0.49 (talk) 13:44, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Who said anything about driving distance? (Because of one way streets, the driving distance to the house next door to mine is about 1/4 mile. From front door to front door, the distance is about 25 feet. At the closest point, the distance is zero -- row houses are like that.) - SummerPhD (talk) 16:02, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why is this article, at this time, protected?. Capbat (talk) 16:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

{{edit semi-protected}}

The city, which lies about 70 miles southwest of New York City,[5] is the nation's fourth-largest urban area by population and its fourth-largest consumer media market, as ranked by the Nielsen Media Research.

Philadelphia is about 70 miles straight line from northeast of Philly to southwest of NYC. Mrraezer (talk) 11:38, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Done, sort of. I see there's been some disagreement about this figure. The article used to say 90 miles, which was the driving distance, not the direct distance. Subsequently it said 45 miles, based on the shortest distance between the two cities' closest points. But I believe distances between cities are conventionally given as the distances between the cities' centers. If you google "distance between New York City and Philadelphia", there are numerous sources that give 80 miles as the direct (not driving) distance. I've edited the article accordingly. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 12:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This seems right. It is certainly wrong to measure the distance from the northeast corner of Philadelphia to the southern most point of Staten Island. john k (talk) 17:45, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am the one who supplied the 45 mile gmap-pedometer.com link (as the crow flies -- straight line not driving distance) for the distance between the two closest points from Northeast Philadelphia to Staten Island. http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3985796 Jfichman supplied the 80 mile gmap-pedometer.com link for the distance between Philadelphia City Hall (in Center City Philadelphia) and New York City Hall (in Lower Manhattan). http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=4034678 It looks like we are all in agreement about those two facts. I will let the community of Wikipedia users determine what distance (and what wording) to use for this page. Cheers. Scranton215 (talk) 01:33, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Using gmap-pedometer.com to find the distance between two points you have selected is not a reliable source for the distance between two cities, it is original research. What reliable sources say the distance is is what we should say the distance is. If reliable sources give differing figures based on different measurement points, the article should give both and, to the extent the sources make it clear, explain the basis for the different figures. - SummerPhD (talk) 03:01, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The now operating SugarHouse Casino and the proposed Foxwoods Casino Philadelphia with its revoked license should be included, but I am unsure where. --DThomsen8 (talk) 18:47, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Economy section would make sense Medvedenko (talk) 18:29, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the third paragraph of the article's opening, the following sentence is written: "It [Philadelphia] was the most populous city of the young United States, although by the first census in 1790, New York City had overtaken it."

Then, under Ben Franklin's picture in the "History" section, you'll read: "The state government left Philadelphia in 1799 and the federal government left soon after in 1800, but the city remained the young nation's largest and a financial and cultural center. New York City soon surpassed Philadelphia in population, but construction of roads, canals, and railroads helped turn Philadelphia into the United States' first major industrial city."

According to the first sentence, New York City had already overtaken Philadelphia in population by 1790, but according to the second excerpt, the population shift did not occur until soon after 1800. I do not know which statement is correct; I merely noted this contradiction and wanted to point it out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shoemaukertuvvick (talk • contribs) 16:24, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

{{edit semi-protected}} Under the Pennsylvania Constitution, elected judges to the Philadelphia Traffic Court have no minimum qualifications and are not required to be lawyers. Currently, none of the Traffic Court judges are lawyers.

Justice4awe 03:48, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done however, there are qualifications that must be met, as noted in the ref. --Funandtrvl (talk) 03:11, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello everyone,

I noticed that in the statistics section for Area (located on the right side of the article, the data is presented in kilometers first and then in square miles second enclosed in parentheses. It looks as such: Land 326.144 km2 (135.1 sq mi). In my opinion, being that Philadelphia is in the USA and that we still use imperial units instead of metric units, the data should be rewritten to indicate that usage.- Land 135.1 sq mi (326.144 km2).

In fact for Chicago, NYC and most cities in the US this is the standard.

I would change it myself however I am unfamiliar with the editing process, being that it has been a while since I edited a Wikipedia article.

Could someone more experienced do the change?

Thanks,

kmathews7

--Kmathews7 (talk) 13:57, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. AlexiusHoratius 14:08, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

why doesnt the Demographics include Dominicans.. they are the second largest hispanic.. not mexicans, so why does it say all dis shit about mexicans — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.27.194 (talk • contribs) 03:25, 21 January 2011

Do you have a source we can use? - SummerPhD (talk) 04:24, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

http://articles.philly.com/1996-02-07/news/25658327_1_dominican-republic-dominican-population-dominican-people — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.239.60 (talk) 23:21, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Before I get to the main point, the reference to "Johnson and Johnson" in the 7th paragraph under Economy should read "Johnson & Johnson."

I would recommend a change to section 4.4 on sports. A part of it states: "The failure was sometimes attributed in jest to the "Curse of Billy Penn." However, as it turned out, the main reason for the failure during that time was because the only years the city's teams played for championships were presidential inaugural years.[51][52]"

Clearly, there is no causal relationship between inaugural years and a particular city's team losing in the championship round. The section should be rewritten to something similar to: "The failure was sometimes attributed in jest to the "Curse of Billy Penn." Another interesting coincidence is that the city's teams have lost in the championship round during presidential inaugural years.[51][52]"

Mcj4476 (talk) 20:11, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My feeling is that all this talk of some "Curse of Billy Penn" (did his family even ever call him "Billy"?) is utter nonsense and doesn't belong in a respectable encyclopedia. Does any wikipedia editor believe that this curse it is real?--BillFlis (talk) 23:59, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is doubtful anyone ever called him "Billy" and the curse is certainly absurd. Nevertheless, it is notable. - SummerPhD (talk) 01:58, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed that the curse of Billy Penn was notable and that it was often jokingly discussed in Philadelphia while it was still "valid," though Philadelphians did use the nickname "Billy," which is quite often used by Philadelphians affectionately for the city's founder.

However, nobody in Philadelphia discussed the curse of inaugural years, and the fact that the article attributes causation means it should be edited or removed. Mcj4476 (talk) 02:06, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. "The failure was sometimes attributed in jest to the "Curse of Billy Penn." However, as it turned out, the main reason for the failure during that time was because the only years the city's teams played for championships were presidential inaugural years." This is bullsiht, why is it still in here? There exists no cause->effect relationship in this case. Action should be taken to remove and revise this. Just my 2 pence to be helpful, take the Winnie. Thanks. Bobkustofawitshz (talk) 03:41, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify, "Billy Penn" refers to the statue atop City Hall, not the man. 66.87.2.2 (talk) 00:01, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it's time for a pretty major copy edit session for the History of Philadelphia article. There are a number of sections that are somewhat poorly written, unsourced, etc., and it could benefit from a concerted editing and improvement edit. I've done a few minor edits in sorting and formatting images, but it still needs quite a bit of work in the text. Who's ready to get on this with me? nf utvol (talk) 12:43, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Census 2010 gives the population of Philadelphia as 1,526,006 [7] down from the population estimates of 1556373 in April 2010 and 1558613 in July 2010 [8]. There was no clear way to differentiate between these types of data in the map but it should be that everything is Census data now. I think we should specifically footnote any population estimates in the future. gren グレン 20:00, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

According to the latest 2010 census figures, Phoenix has not surpassed Philadelphia's population. The estimates were off by about 150,000 people. Therefore, Philadelphia remains the 5th-biggest city in the United States. Due to the size of the error in the census estimate dating back to 2007, it would seem that although it may be informative for estimates to be listed as they become available, they should not be used as credible bases to change the ranking of cities. Only actual census counts should be used for this purpose, this example seems to show. <http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/117761248.html> 86.212.112.117 (talk) 23:31, 10 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"[...] compounded from philos (φίλος) "love", and adelphos (ἀδελφός) "brother")."

That's wrong: φίλος, or philos (but I'd rather write phílos, and adelphós) in Latin characters, means "friend"; the word for "love" (or "friendship") is φιλία, philía. 62.98.27.163 (talk) 10:50, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Philadelphia is the birthplace of American democracy.(see: "SUMMIT IN WASHINGTON: IN PHILADELPHIA; In Birthplace of U.S. Democracy, Jiang Finds the Trappings and Traps of Liberty")

Petey Parrot (talk) 12:47, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dominicans number at 20,000 in the state.. with about 80% of that being in the city of Philadelphia.. 80% = about 17,000.. compare 17,000 Dominicans to about 12,000 mexicans Dominicans are obviously the larger group by acouple thousand some sources: http://articles.philly.com/1996-02-07/news/25658327_1_dominican-republic-dominican-population-dominican-people http://www.migrationpolicy.org/pubs/MPI_Report_Dominican_Pop_US.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.239.60 (talk) 23:31, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dominicans number at 20,000 in the state.. with about 80% of that being in the city of Philadelphia.. 80% = about 17,000.. compare 17,000 Dominicans to about 12,000 mexicans.. Dominicans are obviously the larger group by acouple thousand.. some sources: http://articles.philly.com and /1996-02-07/news/25658327_1_dominican-republic-dominican-population-dominican-people http://www.migrationpolicy.org/pubs/MPI_Report_Dominican_Pop_US.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.239.60 (talk) 01:50, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dominicans number at 20,000 in the state.. with about 80% of that being in the city of Philadelphia.. 80% = about 17,000.. compare 17,000 Dominicans to about 12,000 mexicans.. Dominicans are obviously the larger group by acouple thousand.. some sources: http://articles.philly.com/1996-02-07/news/25658327_1_dominican-republic-dominican-population-dominican-people and http://www.migrationpolicy.org /pubs/MPI_Report_Dominican_Pop_US.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.239.60 (talk) 01:53, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NOBODY GIVES A SH*T! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.13.65.6 (talk) 02:32, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Abruzzo is a Region, not a city. Is Philadelphia really twinned with the Region Abruzzo, or is it twinned with some city in Abruzzo? Yougeeaw (talk) 17:13, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

i predicted in sept. just before jackson came back that the eagles would not sign him because they did not like his mouth or his agent. whether he gets a contract or not i think he has won because he is the best receiver on the team. the last 2 years reflected that but the eagles do not want to give into player demands. especially after they go public. without him making those plays he normally makes the eagles will continue to loose. they need to stop the games give the boy his money and sit back and watch him work. it will be their lost if he gets signed by another team. bill hayes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.109.54.12 (talk) 22:09, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever the merits of including that assessment of the city in the article, the sentence is ungrammatical. I'd fix it myself but the article seems to be locked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.8.34.218 (talk) 14:33, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm taking that assertion out of the article because of its subjectivity and lack of notability. This is what it read orginally:

--Apollo1758 (talk) 19:05, 25 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone please make a correction to the section titled "Walkability"? It is incorrectly listed as the 5th most walkable city, when it is actually 9th. When the original editor added this fact, they did not notice that the cities were ordered my population, not by walkability score. (By population it ranks 5th.)

Of course, this section could be deleted altogether if desired: it's not a particularly important fact, regardless of it's ranking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimsarcade (talk • contribs) 03:00, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Be bold. --Tkynerd (talk) 03:26, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Jimsarcade (talk) 03:32, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I started a page on "A Short Account of the Malignant Fever." i am looking for suggestions on how to improve the page and keep it growing. Please take a look. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kpilkington (talk • contribs) 16:05, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First sentence should be changed:

Philadelphia ( /ˌfɪləˈdɛlfiə/) is the largest city in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the county seat of Philadelphia County, with which it is coterminous.

This is the most boring stuff ever — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.74.14.245 (talk) 01:17, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change "A 2011 study by Walk Score ranked Philadelphia the ninth most walkable major city in the United States.[110]" to "A 2011 study by Walk Score ranked Philadelphia the fifth most walkable major city in the United States.[10] Wgkealey (talk) 02:00, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've displayed the reference; in the future, leave a bare url or [ link ] so that it can be seen and actioned, please. Dru of Id (talk) 04:32, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Done The current source was sufficient. The confusion seems to have been the qualifier "major" city. It ranks ninth of all of the cities they have data on, but the page for Philielphia states "Philadelphia is the 5th most walkable large city in the U.S...." Thanks, Celestra (talk) 19:07, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to the 2010 Census Philadelphia now has the 3rd largest population of African-Americans.

63.139.238.217 (talk) 14:53, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please remove the inappropriate editorial comment (See WP:SPS, not RS) from the text of the History section. 66.87.2.2 (talk) 00:24, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Done — although the editor may have a point. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 02:34, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I had considered replacing it with {{rs}} tag but noticed a 2nd citation was recently added to the statement. Thank you. 66.87.0.213 (talk) 02:50, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can I have the opportunity to modify and update the cityscape and demographics sections of the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheManOfTruth (talk • contribs) 06:08, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've noticed that the content for the sections on culture, economy, education, and transportation devote an excessive amount of prose to listing information and examples that belong in separate main articles. Some of these sections even go off-topic by discussing information pertaining to the suburbs when talking about Philadelphia proper, and most of them make dubious claims followed by link-laden prose. For example, a passage in the Economy section states:

I'm going to tag claims like these with inline tags when possible and substitute unreadable lists of links with verifiable assertions. However, the long-term solution to the excessive examples would be to rewrite each of these sections and move the current information to separate articles, or move the information to relevant lists. Main articles already exist for Culture of Philadelphia, Education in Philadelphia, and Transportation in Philadelphia, while Economy of Philadelphia still needs to be created. I don't know much about these topics myself, but maybe I'll find some reliable sources for them or someone from WikiProject Philadelphia can check which claims are accurate. --Apollo1758 (talk) 16:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

M15starrrad (talk) 14:14, 18 August 2012 (UTC) Philadelphia is classified as a Alpha-World City in the World Cities Study Group's inventory in 2010.[reply]

 Not done: Please be specific about what you want changed ("change X to Y") and provide a reliable source RudolfRed (talk) 17:07, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please note that in final sentence of the climate section for Philadelphia, the author notes that " temperatures below 0 °F (−17.8 °C) occur only a few times a decade." Why would we refer to 0 degrees Fahrenheit when water freezes at 32 degrees F ? Suggest the following, " Philadelphia, on average experiences 90 days per year of below freezing point temperatures."

Please refer to sites below for support of my change request.

http://coolweather.net/statetemperature/pennsylvania_temperature.htm

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/online/ccd/min32temp.html

Rjdunn21 (talk) 05:06, 29 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be better to gain consensus first. Closing. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 13:53, 30 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Philadelphia does have the second largest Puerto Rican population of any US city, after NYC. (im talking city-proper, not entire metro area) Philly has the 2nd largest Rican population. Check the 2010 census stats. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.51.15 (talk) 07:32, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Locking it prevents improving the article. I wanted to put in a fact about architecture but I cannot. Please do not be bureaucratic and make me submit something for review. SupportMelissaKetunuti (talk) 00:16, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

On the right sidebar in the same section as "Founded" and "Incorporated" please add "Settled 1643" It is common to identify the first settlement date of a city. It is well known that Philadelphia was first settled by the Swedish, hence the colors of the city flag. Furthermore, please see this page for proof of the first Swedish settlement in Philadephia --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Sweden 71.23.225.108 (talk) 18:53, 2 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. We can't use another Wikipedia article as the source, but your request sounds fine otherwise. Rivertorch (talk) 08:08, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The murder rate in Philadelphia during the 1990s did NOT average 600 per year. There were 4111 murders in that decade for an average of 411.1. That's far from 600. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redhandnyc (talk • contribs) 01:58, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The climate section says

The January daily average is 32.9 °F (0.5 °C), though lows at times reach 10 °F (−12 °C), not including wind chill

The passage lows at times reach 10 °F is vacuous and potentially misleading. One could also say lows at times reach 5°F or lows at times reach 0°F. So I think the passage should be deleted and possibly replaced with with lows averaging xx°F Or maybe it could be

...though lows reach 10 °F (−12 °C), not including wind chill, an average of xx times per year.

which matches the treatment of 90°F in the next sentence. Duoduoduo (talk) 18:16, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For historic colony it should say Province of Pennsylvania, that was the official name of the colony. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.244.95.175 (talk) 16:43, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For example, their is no evidence that Philadelphia has the 2nd largest Jamaican/west indian population, yes Philly does have a large jamaican and west indian population, but there is no evidence at all about it having the 2nd largest. Also, Philadelphia DOES have the 2nd largest Puerto Rican population, and there is numerous sources to prove this its not even funny, so why is that not up there?? And there is much more Dominicans than Mexicans in Philly, so why is the Mexican population highlighted and not the Dominican? I mean, I could go on and on.. You guys need to fix this. This is mis-information.

For example, their is no evidence that Philadelphia has the 2nd largest Jamaican/west indian population, yes Philly does have a large jamaican and west indian population, but there is no evidence at all about it having the 2nd largest. Also, Philadelphia DOES have the 2nd largest Puerto Rican population, and there is numerous sources to prove this its not even funny, so why is that not up there?? And there is much more Dominicans than Mexicans in Philly, so why is the Mexican population highlighted and not the Dominican? I mean, I could go on and on.. You guys need to fix this. This is mis-information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.233.107 (talk) 18:19, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at Philadelphia. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

For example, their is no evidence that Philadelphia has the 2nd largest Jamaican/west indian population, yes Philly does have a large jamaican and west indian population, but there is no evidence at all about it having the 2nd largest. Also, Philadelphia DOES have the 2nd largest Puerto Rican population, and there is numerous sources to prove this its not even funny, so why is that not up there?? And there is much more Dominicans than Mexicans in Philly, so why is the Mexican population highlighted and not the Dominican? I mean, I could go on and on.. You guys need to fix this. This is mis-information. 68.194.239.162 (talk) 21:19, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]