Jump to content

Talk:Wilbur Soot

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Natalius (talk | contribs) at 02:41, 7 February 2023 (→‎Split Discussion - Lovejoy: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Legal Name

EDIT 2: I chose to WP:BOLDly add it.

EDIT: I've added a lot of comments below of various things I found, but the gist is that in this Twitch clip Gold says his full name is "William Patrick Spenser Gold". Should we add it?

ORIGINAL COMMENT(s):

I'm aware that Gold has stated before his legal name is Will, but, according to the Companies House website (the official company register for the United Kingdom), his legal name is William Patrick Gold. (See https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/wYJPbb9D5pgISf5rFOIfyNIr5xY/appointments). It seems extremely unlikely for an official government website to be incorrect.

Gold has also mentioned that he prefers to go by William anyway (see https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpartialCalmClipsmomVoteYea-zHMK-wwNfGaBi22O).

I think we should probably use his full legal name according to Companies House, but this may be a WP:BLPPRIVACY issue. If it is, and another reliable source cannot be found for this name, then I think we should still list William, as this is the name he has said he prefers to go by anyway. We can list that as his name, then list "Will Gold" under "Birth name" in the infobox.

Thoughts? Strugglehouse (talk) 16:11, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have also just come across a clip from one of his Twitch streams of him stating his name is William Patrick Spencer Gold (see https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1308860432912842752/pu/vid/1280x720/9z6_Y8dZ3ujIJRfw.mp4). This could be used as a reference, and would not be against WP:PRIVACY, due to those guidelines saying "Wikipedia includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object to the details being made public.". This clip fits into that guideline due it being a direct clip from one of Gold's streams, where he addresses the viewers directly and states this. Strugglehouse (talk) 16:39, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The full VOD is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoyKyB3wYhg (at 1:52:07) Strugglehouse (talk) 17:00, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You can also see it on the Internet Archive here, and an actual Twitch clip here. Strugglehouse (talk) 17:10, 5 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
His full name should not be included. I have already put in his legal name as it is on Companies House, but undid the revision as it is in violation of privacy on Wikipedia, which only requires middle names, etc. for disambiguation between names of similar people, which is not necessary here. I recommend you undo your revisions. Plus, the full name (i.e. inclusion of Spencer) is wrong as per the legal documents on Companies House, which must have your full, unchanged legal name including all middle names. EddieColdrick (talk) 11:52, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@EddieColdrick If we have his full name, we might as well include it. Linking to company files is very different from linking to an actual clip from his steam. Him stating his name proves he doesn't mind it being published, company documents MUST be published. They're different. Also, Companies House doesn't necessarily have full names. Take Declan Donnelly (full name Declan Joseph Oliver Donnelly, listed on Companies House as "Declan Joseph DONNELLY") or Christian Horner (full name Christian Edward Johnston Horner, listed on Companies House as "Christian HORNER"). Strugglehouse (talk) 12:05, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strugglehouse, there is no policy or guideline that states that company documents MUST be published. If anything, this is a conflict between what the subject of the article says (WP:ABOUTSELF) and what an authoritative primary source says (WP:BLPPRIMARY concerns aside). Also, you sidestepped the "Spencer" issue. Pilaz (talk) 14:23, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Pilaz I'm not sure what you mean. I mean that company documents must be published and publicly available on the Companies House website. I was saying I agree this goes against WP:BLPPRIVACY. The current source passes WP:ABOUTSELF. It is not an exceptional claim. Strugglehouse (talk) 14:36, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strugglehouse, regarding the Companies House document, I misinterpreted your statement: I thought you were saying that we were obligated to use it in the article, and I argued that we didn't have to. Putting that aside, I don't understand why you reverted this version without an edit summary. It has this clip where Wilbur Soot says "my birth certificate says Will", and "but my real name is technically Will". Pilaz (talk) 16:14, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Pilaz Okay, thanks for clarifying. The clip that I placed in the article includes him stating that his full name is "William Patrick Spencer Gold". Really, there's no way to tell in which clips he is telling the truth. However, they could both be truthful. Will could be how he was born, but, according to Companies House, he's William. This COULD be wrong, but I'd say his name is most likely at least "William Patrick Gold", but he could have more names not listed on there. Not sure Wikipedia's guidelines on this, but perhaps we could somehow contact him to ask what his name is to fix this dispute. I personally think his legal name is at least "William Patrick Gold", and he most likely has one or two more middle names. We would list different names for his name and birth name. He has also said he prefers the name "William", and, in my opinion, preferred names should favour birth names, or even legal names. As I said, we can have different names listed for his actual name, and his birth name. Strugglehouse (talk) 16:27, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strugglehouse, instead of trying to find the truth from the source and publishing original research (WP:NOR), we should try to find a way to be inclusive of both sources. WP:BALANCE is what matters here. Maybe an explanatory note? Pilaz (talk) 18:15, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Pilaz Okay, that sounds like a good idea. What do you suggest the note say? Strugglehouse (talk) 18:20, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strugglehouse, I found the relevant guideline which is MOS:CHANGEDNAME. What about William Patrick Spencer Gold (born Will Patrick Spencer Gold, 14 September 1996) ? Pilaz (talk) 21:48, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Pilaz That seems appropriate. Strugglehouse (talk) 21:54, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just to add he has also said on a nihachu stream that he had three middle names and another time that he is a pathological liar on YouTube so I would take the two middle names with a pinch of salt. Won't edit anything about his middle names but just throwing that it. Vlkettoandrye (talk) 00:02, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2022

Change William Patrick Spencer Gold to Will Patrick Spencer Gold Lucias288288 (talk) 08:16, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Declined - no reason specified for why the edit request is to be fulfilled. MadGuy7023 (talk) 08:23, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Update Lovejoy section

Although this year has been pretty quiet for Lovejoy, they recently hit the live scene in the UK, first performing under aliases, but now they're touring around the UK and have sold out a small US tour. They've also started a merch line and pressed their first two EPs onto a vinyl release. They've also begun recording new material and teasing a new release that will come out in early 2023 according to their Spotify bio. It's also worth noting that they are not a signed act yet. 2603:8081:6100:BE9:A186:3D6:4FF5:5FC9 (talk) 03:38, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@2603:8081:6100:BE9:A186:3D6:4FF5:5FC9 This is some good information but please provide some reliable sources to prove this info. Strugglehouse (talk) 18:01, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Split Discussion - Lovejoy

Should Lovejoy be split into its own article? There's already a draft article with quite a bit of information on.

Per the notability guidelines for bands, I believe the band is notable, as it has received coverage in the news for it's singes, EPs, concerts, and tours, and has had singles and EPs on many national music charts.

Lovejoy's second EP, Pebble Brain, already has its own article, so it's about time the band had one.

Opinions? Strugglehouse (talk) 16:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Adding to this - Lovejoy was also featured on Crywank's compilation album, "Here You Go, You Do It". The album itself doesn't have an article, but Crywank does. Not sure if this means anything if the album doesn't have an article, bit I thought I'd add it as it's mentioned on the notability guidelines. Strugglehouse (talk) 20:58, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Invited WP:YTP and WT:MUSICIAN to the discussion. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 18:12, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I certainly think the article should be split. Lovejoy as a band does seem to be notable enough for its own article, and there is a lot of information about it that would be excessive in the Wilbur Soot article, but would be good for bettering the amount of information about the band if it had its own article. Blubewwy (talk) 13:07, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • With the amount of fancruft still present on the Draft:Lovejoy (band) article even after my edits removing the unsourced (the concert infoboxes)/poorly sourced information (to setlist.fm, listed at WP:ALBUMAVOID), I don't support it being split off as-is. Also, I did not understand why the columns in the discography wikitables were seemingly arbitrarily re-ordered when copied from Soot's article when the standard is to alphabetise the columns after the group's home country. It was fine as it was. We also typically abbreviate with country initialisms so as not to make the columns ridiculously wide (if one desires, we can use Template:Abbr to tell readers what the initialisms stand for) and that was disregarded too, so I've tried to standardise the tables, section order and remove most of the fancruft. Using university student newspapers as sources (they are not journalists) and social media is never good if you're trying to get an article through AfC either. I haven't gone through the sources in the history section but from a glance they don't look great from what I just mentioned. The entire "Concerts" section should really be removed if you hope to get it through AfC/split off. Ss112 14:45, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Ss112 I understand this, but you seem to have removed/changed everything you are talking about. What else do you think needs changing? Strugglehouse (talk) 16:21, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Strugglehouse: I didn't remove the entirety of the concerts section, which I do not believe is encyclopedic. It doesn't matter how many gigs a band has played, how new they are or whatever other factor is at play for retaining it here, you cannot hope to catalogue all of their shows on their main article. It's considered fancruft. Secondly, I also didn't remove the dubious sources in their career/history section. As I said, we shouldn't really be citing college students for...anything. If there aren't better sources out there, then maybe Lovejoy shouldn't have their own article yet. Ss112 12:01, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Ss112 Okay. I've removed the Concerts section. Strugglehouse (talk) 16:29, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Ss112 I have also removed the citation containing a student newspaper article from The Daily Princetonian. Strugglehouse (talk) 23:24, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I believe the band is now notable enough that there are multiple reliable sources to write a full article on. Especially with the fact that they're releasing Call Me What You Like in a few days.
Natalius (talk) 02:36, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note that the current draft article still needs work and is not ready to stand as it's own article, I suggest either creating a new article altogether or we wait until the draft article is ready. Natalius (talk) 02:41, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wilbur_Soot&oldid=1137923348"