Talk:Bob Lazar

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bob Lazar article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4Auto-archiving period: 60 days

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to pseudoscience and fringe science, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard. If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. Biography This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles Skepticism Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skepticism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science, pseudoscience, pseudohistory and skepticism related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkepticismWikipedia:WikiProject SkepticismTemplate:WikiProject SkepticismSkepticism articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Paranormal Low‑importance This article falls under the scope of WikiProject Paranormal, which aims to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the paranormal and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the attached article, help with current tasks, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and discussions.ParanormalWikipedia:WikiProject ParanormalTemplate:WikiProject Paranormalparanormal articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Florida Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Florida. If you would like to join us, please visit the project page; if you have any questions, please consult the FAQ.FloridaWikipedia:WikiProject FloridaTemplate:WikiProject FloridaFlorida articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Miami Mid‑importance This article is part of WikiProject Miami, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the Miami metropolitan area on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.MiamiWikipedia:WikiProject MiamiTemplate:WikiProject MiamiMiami articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Business Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Business, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of business articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BusinessWikipedia:WikiProject BusinessTemplate:WikiProject BusinessWikiProject Business articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Daily pageviews of this article A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

^^^ Dankcomms (talk) 20:06, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, the recent congressional hearings have nothing to do with Lazar, and suggesting they do is WP:OR. Secondly, there are at least ten reliable sources in the article that identify Lazar as a conspiracy theorist. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 20:48, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, it's WP:OR (more precisely, WP:SYNTH). The "conspiracy theorist" label stemmed from Lazar's assertion that he worked on reengineering an alien spacecraft. User Dankcomms is presumably referring to Mr Grusch's House testimony ("I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program"), where the said reengineering work was put in a less scandalous light. Is still WP:SYNTH to relate the two in a WP article, however, I see where the user is coming from. Your "nothing to do with Lazar" is true when "to do with" means direct relationship, but untrue to the degree they have commonality of "reengineering alien craft". --IHTS (talk) 01:02, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. This needs to be looked in a new light after all of the revelations and released video recordings of UFOs from the pentagon, as well as the claims of credible ex-US government whistleblower David Grusch

While this may have nothing to do with Lazar, UFOs are no longer a significant fringe topic and there is significant attempts by various actors to disinform and discredit people like Bob Lazar, David Grusch and others. Mr vili (talk) 10:19, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The same old tall tales do not become less tall when new gullible people tell them. If you want the article to reflect your opinion, you need reliable sources that agree with you. --Hob Gadling (talk) 12:01, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

this may have nothing to do with Lazar Indeed it doesn't, and per WP:TPG, that pretty much ends the discussion. Note also that Wikipedia, including its article Talk pages, is the wrong shop for presenting unsourced, sensational, conspiratorial theories like your supposed significant attempts by various actors. Without a supporting reliable source(s), such claims are inappropriate here. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 15:18, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

1 February 2024‎ Gene Stanley1 talk contribs‎ 32,648 bytes −16‎ If his convictions aren't notable, then his small-time enterprise hardly is either. The user above seems keep making small controversial edits to the Page, the alterations are not constructive and appear inflammatory.

The most recent edit appears to be done in reaction because previous attempts were reversed due to their inflammatory content as noted in the comment: "If his convictions aren't notable, then his small-time enterprise hardly is either.".

Rather than an edit to truly contribute to the topic discussed in this page. The edit does not appear to have been performed in good faith of the community of page editing and it should therefore be reversed. If the removal of the reference to the person is done, it needs done properly, as now it leaves the page as suggesting that Bob Lazar is a full time conspiracy theorist. I would suggest this change is reverted from: Robert Scott Lazar (/ləˈzɑːr/; born January 26, 1959) is an American conspiracy theorist who claims he was hired in the late 1980s to reverse-engineer extraterrestrial technology. This work supposedly occurred at a secret site called "S-4", a subsidiary installation allegedly located several kilometers south of the United States Air Force facility popularly known as Area 51.

Back to the original version as the edit does not contribute:

Robert Scott Lazar (/ləˈzɑːr/; born January 26, 1959) is an American businessman and conspiracy theorist who claims he was hired in the late 1980s to reverse-engineer extraterrestrial technology. This work supposedly occurred at a secret site called "S-4", a subsidiary installation allegedly located several kilometers south of the United States Air Force facility popularly known as Area 51. 80.189.187.159 (talk) 11:14, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done - LuckyLouie (talk) 16:16, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Dennis" Lazar is famous for his conspiracy theories only. That he happens to have a smalltime scientific supplies business is incidental.

If his business is somehow noteworthy, then his crimes are also noteworthy. I'd argue the crimes are noteworthy in any case, since the article establishes that they have shaped public perception of Lazar and have thrown doubt on the very claims that made him famous in the first place. Gene Stanley1 (talk) 23:51, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the edit requester in the section above. You wanted to add the word "criminal" to the lead, and when you couldn't get agreement on that, you tried to delete "businessman" to prove a WP:POINT. This seems to be the definition of editing in bad faith. - LuckyLouie (talk) 00:24, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So you're unable to rebut my comment? Okay. Seems my version is the way to go (adding "criminal" to lede). EDIT: Looking back in time, it seems you once had a legitimate complaint about users trying to right WP:GREATWRONGS. However, the article could be freely edited at that time; it's now indefinitely extended-protected. Gene Stanley1 (talk) 22:33, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think there is or ever was WP:CONSENSUS for adding "criminal" to the first sentence of the lead, e.g. “Bob Lazar is a criminal” or "Bob Lazar is a convict". According to the majority cited sources, he is best known for his conspiracy theories that the US is hiding alien technology at Area 51. There is much less notability for his criminal conviction that is reflected in cited sources. Which is why it is more appropriately mentioned in the second paragraph of the lead: "Lazar's public image has also been affected by criminal activity: he was convicted in 1990 for his involvement in a prostitution ring, and again in 2006 for selling illegal chemicals." If you feel this is in error, you can always make your case at WP:BLPN and form a consensus for your desired change. - LuckyLouie (talk) 14:35, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like something that might be worth doing. In the meantime, why is "businessman" in there? Surely the elements of his Wiki notability would be ordered: 1) Conspiracy theories, 2) criminal activity that cast doubt on said theories, and 3) smalltime business. Gene Stanley1 (talk) 20:39, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I belive it is also with noting since this Gene Stanley1, has been editing George knapps wiki page in relation to conspiracy theories, to now name them debunked. The edits have been performed in bad faith it seems and it looks to be quite underhand in the way they are being performed by Gene Stanley1 80.189.187.159 (talk) 21:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An encyclopedia shouldn't be encouraging nonsense about ghosties and aliens. Lazar's story has been torn apart over and over. Knapp is his biggest fruitcake enabler. Gene Stanley1 (talk) 00:14, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@80.189.187.159: Concerns about the George Knapp page should not be aired here. Please read WP:FORUMSHOP and see your own Talk page. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 14:08, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But how true is this really? Writers of course comment on it to indict his credibility, but it seems that more than anything what animates his image in the public eye is the boldness of his claims, and the unverifiable nature of his educational and employment history. The pandering conviction is quite old and is a crime that people care less and less about every year, and the hazmat violations are just heavy handed bureaucratic garbage that is knowingly and unknowingly violated on a daily basis by legitimate individuals. — THORNFIELD HALL ^(Talk) 08:37, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even if it were true, the wording is weird. It could also mean that other people have committed crimes in order to make Lazar look bad in public. --Hob Gadling (talk) 09:53, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have re-worded (and shortened) that passage to improve its clarity. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 10:03, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Its quite clear what the man talked about is true and what is happening in the sky and it is out there 105.235.246.101 (talk) 10:46, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you, or any other editor, has any reliable sources to support the claim that Its quite clear what the man talked about is true, then please present them here. There's no rush. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 15:34, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bob is telling the truth 100%. The government has now come forward and said that they have been working on and retrieving alien technology and bodies both living and dead from crash and donation sites (donation sites being sites where there were "crashes" without a body or a survivor leading officials to speculate they sent us that craft for some reason) 2605:59C8:410:6710:7627:5764:4A1A:1E1D (talk) 16:00, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you did not read the post immediately above yours. I will paraphrase it here: If you, or any other editor, has any reliable sources to support the claim that Bob is telling the truth 100%, then please present those sources here. Click here to learn about reliable sources. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 20:23, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^[1]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change "Elements of Bob's employment history have been exaggerated or fabricated" to "elements of Bob's employment history have been erased by officials from S-4 and the government" 2605:59C8:410:6710:7627:5764:4A1A:1E1D (talk) 15:54, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Per WP:SELFSOURCE a statement by the subject of the article on a podcast with no editorial oversight can't be used to support claims about third parties like this. Jamedeus (talk) 16:35, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]