Talk:City bicycle

"In the United States, where cities and suburbs are located on a variety of terrain, including steep hills, the European city bike is virtually unknown." That implies the overgeneralization that Europe is flat, and America is hilly, as an explanation for why heavy European city bikes are used around Europe but not around the U.S.

In someone's recent additions to the article, there's an overhasty justification for the relevance of heavy city bikes in Europe because it's flat and uniform, while the U.S. is hilly and varied, as an explanation or excuse for why heavy European city bikes are, supposely, ill-suited for the U.S. but make sense for Europe. Europe has a range of variants of the city bike, even though the archetypal extreme is full-featured and heavy.

Europe is just as varied as the U.S., for hills, so the argument of suitability for Europe but not U.S. based on hills and varied terrain doesn't hold up. U.S. cities that lack hills and have bikes include Davis, CA (together with Sacramento and all other cities in the large central valley), and greater Phoenix, AZ. We'd need to compare a range of European cities with a range of U.S. cities and weigh the bikes used in all those cities.

Also most of Colorado: Fort Collins down through Denver is all flat and easy to ride with a 3 speed. --Jaded-view (talk) 17:54, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Hoffman, Nov. 7, 2008

I agree. This is kind of absurd. Additionally, I don't think this article is really the place to wax poetic about American bicycle tastes, and someone's personal theory as to why we have those tastes. Also, the argument that lighter bikes are better for places with high rates of bike theft and vandalism doesn't completely stand up. Amsterdam has plenty of bike theft, and it's the center of the city bike universe. Zaneselvans (talk) 17:28, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Someone removed my point, that needs to be understood better:

An O-lock secures the back wheel to the frame, which can be secured to a bike rack. This prevents having to carry a separate lock to lock the back wheel, and prevents the possibility of locking the frame but having the back wheel stolen.

There needs to be an article focusing on O-locks, because America doesn't know anything about them. Until then, that major benefit of O-locks could be added to the "Bicycle lock" article.

-- Mike Hoffman —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.36.25 (talk) 03:29, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

http://images.google.com/images?q=stadsfiets

http://images.google.com/images?q=fiets

http://images.google.com/images?q=batavus%20stadsfiets

http://images.google.com/images?q=sparta%20stadsfiets

http://images.google.com/images?q=gazelle%20stadsfiets —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.36.25 (talk) 02:33, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A major Copenhagen blogger and bike advocate wrote the following (edited):

The encyclopedia article and the commentary at Momentum magazine's blog article "Interbike 2008: Shifts in Bike Biz" -- http://www.momentumplanet.com/blog/walker/interbike-heralds-shifts-bike-biz are excessively Netherlands-centric. Instead, emphasize that 100 million people in Europe ride their bike each day, according to the European Cyclists Federation.

Brands like Kildemoes, in Denmark, make 100,000 bikes a year and Denmark alone has more bike brands than Holland. There are the Swedish brands and various German brands.

This focus on the country of Holland in relation to bicycles does not really provide the big picture. The fact that these bikes are called 'Dutch bikes' is odd.

Great articles. Mention Copenhagen, Denmark; and countless German, Swiss, and Belgian cities with high usage rates. That conveys that that cycling is a normal everyday activity across wide swathes of the world, not just in quaint, quirky Holland.

-- Blogger's advice posted by Mike Hoffman, Nov. 7, 2008

Moebiusuibeom-en did a checkin with the comment: (By the way, contents of article is excellent, it just has to be organized in a more encyclopedic form)

This comment means alot to me. It's been a sacrifice and a long several-month journey to discovering and giving some of the first major U.S. exposure to contemporary Dutch city bikes.

Somehow I figured out that the old-fashioned Dutch bike is only penultimate, not ultimate -- how exactly did I "discover" the contemporary Dutch bike, from within the total American information blackout of that particular type of bike? I am interested in the process of discovery of ideas, due to my work in guitar amp system design and the theory and history of religious experiencing, and because I tend to take a certain stance of wishing to push the edge of any area I get involved in. This recounting could shed light to help improve the content of the article.

I was led to discover and break the news in the U.S. about *contemporary*-styled Dutch city bikes in the following sequence:

• Grade school through college, was a major commuter/transportation cyclist. Shook my head at weekend sports cyclists in hills of Silicon Valley.
• Did daily walks to recover from a serious fractured leg. At work I noticed bike commuters and a bike map of the city. I did daily recovery walks near a bike shop. I also walked, using 2 canes, to a cafe that had a bike map of the city.
• Read Momentum magazine, starting with the Lance Armstrong cover in mid-2008, learning the general perspective of city bikes as opposed to sports and recreation cycling.
• Test-rode bikes including Bianchi brand, Milano model, with hub gear.
• Finally got a bike again.
• Discovered the revolutionary webpage about bike usage in Amsterdam, written by a befuddled San Francisco cyclist.
• Did Web searches for Amsterdam, bike, Dutch. Found the Gazelle web site. Found that they don't distribute to the U.S.
• Looked at old-fashioned black bikes at Dutch Bike Seattle.
• Left a memo at Gregg's asking "How can I get a contemporary-styled Dutch bike like people in Holland are actually buying?"
• Gregg's manager phoned me saying they could order me a Batavus. They spelled the company name for me.
• Looked up Batavus website and saw the clear distinction between old-fashioned vs. the predominant contemporary styling.
• Test-rode old-fashioned black bikes at Dutch Bike Seattle.
• Read Momentum and bike lifestyle websites and determined that only the old-fashioned style Dutch bikes were getting awareness in America.
• Determined that Seattle Bike Supply was the distributor for the U.S., but their selection of Batavus bikes was shrinking during 2008.
• Discovered the search technique of a Google image search for "stadsfiets" or "fiets", which instantly enlightens with a revelation in imaginal visions of contemporary Dutch city bikes (clear, trimmed skirt guards; hub gears; hub light system; O-lock).
• Wrote extensive commentary at the Momentum magazine's blog article "Interbike 2008: Shifts in Bike Biz" -- http://www.momentumplanet.com/blog/walker/interbike-heralds-shifts-bike-biz
• Determined that Fourth Floor Distribution was becoming the distributor for the U.S. and Canada, in conjunction with Curbside Cycle which is devoted to true city bikes.
• Drafted the European city bike encyclopedia article and sent it to Momentum and Fourth Floor Distribution.
• Did extensive Web research and confirmed that there is barely any awareness of this type of bike, the contemporary-styled Dutch city bike. Overcame the language barrier using machine translation of web pages.

As I drive and bike through this raging car-cult city, I hope -- it's such a long shot -- that the vision of Curbside Cycles can somehow come true, that providing a true appropriately equipped non-sports city bike can convert this car-cult city arrangement to become bike-aware and bike-friendly. We are so far, and need so much hope, against even the U.S.-influenced, sports-drunk bike industry.

-- Mike Hoffman, Nov. 4, 2008 (Obama was elected president as I composed this, with hundreds of students chanting in celebration in the university library)