Talk:2024 Varzaqan helicopter crash

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It has been proposed in this section that 2024 Varzaqan helicopter crash be renamed and moved to 2024 Iranian leadership helicopter crash. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

2024 Varzaqan helicopter crash → 2024 Iranian leadership helicopter crash – Similar to 2023 Wagner Group plane crash. The current title really undersells the significance of this event. Bremps... 15:41, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment — I amended your move as this is a helicopter crash. I made the same mistake myself. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 15:48, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I think I'd be supportive, but I would prefer if we could please wait until things settle down a little. We don't even fully know what happened yet, let alone have a WP:COMMONNAME. Current events articles immediately getting a bazillion move requests opened is definitely a pet peeve of mine, we may as well close as no consensus now. Toadspike [Talk] 15:50, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  In general, I agree with you, but 2024 Iranian Presidential Helicopter Crash seems safe. No one is denying that the President was aboard. 2600:4040:297C:8F00:A9E5:4E04:EFC7:7F73 (talk) 16:24, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  That name would work but it would undersell the fact that the FM was also onboard. Bremps... 16:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support but we gotta wait a bit Waleed (talk) 16:38, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• As of now, I probably wouldn't support it just to be consistent with other article titles. From what I've seen, they describe the location of the crash rather than who was aboard. Triclops Queen (talk) 16:39, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• comment maybe changing the title into "2024 iranien president's helicopter crash" would be the most the most relevent. all the media are emphasizing on Raisi's presence in the choper here CNN https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/raisi-iran-president-helicopter-crash/index.html Anticonstitutionnelist (talk) 16:50, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose for now. Too clunky title. Borgenland (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose — Per Borgenland. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 17:37, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose for now. It is appropriately titled per WP:NCE. We should not rename until a commonname is more established. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 17:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now. Wait a little while I think. Sadustu Tau (talk) 17:42, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose for now until a WP:COMMONNAME is established. Spiderpig662 (talk) 17:48, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. I agree it needs to sound more notable. Wjfox2005 (talk) 18:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose other articles about crashes with similarly notable persons on board (e.g Kobe Bryant) - are consistently named by year and location 2020 Calabasas helicopter crash Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 18:17, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per above, such a title would deviate from the standard titles for the similar pages. Egeymi (talk) 18:25, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose The proposed name is not (yet) a common name. The Smolensk air disaster did not become commonly known as the 2010 Polish leadership plane crash even though it killed the Polish president, his wife, the national bank head, several senior military leaders, 18 members of parliament, and senior govt officials. Boud (talk) 19:42, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Disaster management, WikiProject Iran, and WikiProject Aviation have been notified of this discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 19:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't discussing a succession too WP:CRYSTALBALL??? Borgenland (talk) 18:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no indication of Israeli intelligence involvement at this time. The source cited doesn't mention anything about it either. Edit: The part mentioning that seems to have been removed from this page. 82.2.41.189 (talk) 18:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Wayback archive URL is currently invalid. Leaving aside that WP:DAILYMIRROR is a tabloid and a no consensus source, in the source I don't see anything about Israeli intelligence being involved in the crash either. This was the edit that introduced the claim. Boud (talk) 19:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We currently have {{Contentious topics/talk notice|topic=a-i}} on this talk page, but there is so far only speculation about Arab-Israeli involvement. We don't have any warning about the Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict, even though the event happened near the Azerbaijan border, and we don't have any warning about post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, even though Iran is under US sanctions and US-Iran relations come up often in post-1992 US political discussions.

Any objections to removing this particular template (topic=a-i) from this talk page? Boud (talk) 19:09, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, we should really wait before at all relating the crash to Israel or anything to do with the conflict, as right now it is entirely speculation. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 19:11, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies I forgot to remove it when I was trying to find a related article. Borgenland (talk) 20:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No objection, I was thinking the same thing myself. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 19:50, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources say the involved helicopter was a Bell 212, not 412 which is usually used in official Iranian President travels. Aminabzz (talk) 19:53, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

which sources? Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 19:55, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/5/19/iran-helicopter-accident-live-president-fm-on-missing-aircraft?update=2910784. Borgenland (talk) 20:00, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I was going to say that from the photos in the article it looks like a 212 (just 2 blades on the rotor), but was hesitant to change just in the basis of my visual impression.

Now that we have a source saying that, I think we should change it. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 20:05, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]