Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2020

Was trying to import the Template:PD-KG-exempt template from Commons to identify the licensing of our sparse Kyrgyz works..even sure if it should be here or we somehow link to off-wiki licensing templates? Lemuritus (talk) 19:45, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It would be OK, however, non-US copyright templates are redundant here. Per policy, this project requires that works uploaded here are free in US only. Ankry (talk) 19:50, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Would it not require a non-US template for the mythical day when the files are moved to their own ky.wikisource subdomain? Perhaps I misunderstand. (unrelated matter, Special:Preferences has two typos, "Preloading next page scan in background. When edining(sic) in the Page: namespace, this gadżet(sic) preloads scan of the next page to speed up its future loading." Lemuritus (talk) 19:55, 1 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

21:18, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

https://blog.pgdp.net/2020/01/01/ten-eleven-years-at-dp/ —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:28, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:39, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

19:41, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Hello

The Wikimedia Foundation’s Community Development team is seeking to learn more about the way volunteers learn and develop into the many different roles that exist in the movement. Our goal is to build a movement informed framework that provides shared clarity and outlines accessible pathways on how to grow and develop skills within the movement. To this end, we are looking to speak with you, our community to learn about your journey as a Wikimedia volunteer. Whether you joined yesterday or have been here from the very start, we want to hear about the many ways volunteers join and contribute to our movement.

To learn more about the project, please visit the Meta page. If you are interested in participating in the project, please complete this simple Google form. Although we may not be able to speak to everyone who expresses interest, we encourage you to complete this short form if you are interested in participating!

-- LMiranda (WMF) (talk) 19:01, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Wikisource Community,

Meeting the Wikisource community expectations, we are working with Wikimedia Polska and Wikimedia Foundation on organiziing the 2nd Wikisource Conference in Warsaw. We already had a survey that showed high interest in the Conference within the community. We also had recently a meeting on the conference organization process and its requirements. However, we are still at a very early stage of the Conference organization process. But we are hoping this event will happen in September this year.

In order to apply for Wikimedia Foundation support, we need some input from the community about the Conference goals and the community expectations. If you are a wikisourcian, you wish to participate the conference or you wish to help the Wikisource community that the conference take place, please fill the short survey linked below before January 29 (due to short deadline for grant applications). Please, also share this request among Your communities. Here is the link to the survey

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSf7FnFgMLPHeyWtBqjgXwLDYvh5vxeTnsZ0OIjTdSDrZlX0PA/viewform

Feel free to contact us, if you have any questions, suggestions, proposals, or if you wish to help us in any other way.

On behalf of the Organizing Commitee,

Nicolas Vigneron

Satdeep Gill

Ankry

18:52, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

20:04, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

There are new error messages for some edge cases when the follow attribute is used incorrectly.
The follow attribute allows users to merge source material which spans over multiple pages. It only exists on Wikisource and works like this: You can merge the contents of two references into one footnote, e.g. <ref name="a">Text for source 1</ref> […] <ref follow="a">Text for source 2</ref> . In the reference section, this shows the footnote like this: Text for source 1 Text for source 2. More information about this attribute can be found here.

For the follow-attribute to work it is important that the name of the reference is defined in the text before the follow attribute is called. Unfortunately, if this is not the case, the follow reference is shown on top of the reference list, with no footnote marker and unattached to the predecessor which it's supposed to follow. In the past, there was no error message for this edge case. This will change soon: In order to align this error behavior with error behavior in the rest of the Cite extension, an error message will be shown (see picture) for this edge case. If you want to find all pages in your wiki using the follow attribute, you can use this query.
This change was done in the context of developing the extends attribute, which caused the WMDE’s Technical Wishes team to rework big parts of the Cite extension. It’s planned to be deployed on February 5.
If you’d like to know more about this change, you can find more detailed information on this Phabricator ticket: T240858. If you have any feedback on this change, please let us know on this central feedback page. - For WMDE’s Technical Wishes Team: Max Klemm (WMDE) (talk) 08:33, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Contrary to what was previously announced, the above change will not take place. There is a risk that as a result of the change, error messages would be displayed on many Wikisource pages, even when there is no error. More information can be found on Phabricator (T240858). Many thanks to everyone who pointed this out!
At this time it is not clear if the announced change can be removed from the general software update (scheduled for tonight) or if the Technical Wishes team will remove it promptly afterwards. -- For the Technical Wishes Team: Max Klemm (WMDE) (talk) 10:49, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nice to see this info. Ankry (talk) 22:40, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Max Klemm (WMDE), On the French Wikisource, it works as before. Thank you for the prompt fix. Cantons-de-l'Est (talk)

Thank you Max Klemm (WMDE): this repair was quickly done! --Zyephyrus (talk) 15:22, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

For information, @Eavqwiki: (full disclosure: she is working for WMFR right now) had the idea to import articles from Jornalet, a free online journal in Occitan. See a first test example here: Peró: la primèra tèsi doctorala presentada en lenga shipibo defend lo desvolopament de las femnas indigènas.

I admit it's a bit unusual but I still think it's a great idea. What do you think?

Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 09:46, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Love it. I don't see why not. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 10:09, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Great idea, I support. And the fact that the journal is purely online should not be a problem (though some wikisources accepted a strange rule that only work having been printed on paper are allowed in Wikisource — I don't share their opinion). And if such (or similar) a journal existed for those languages on which I work here then I would not only supported the idea but also personally and eagerly participated in importing articles into those Wikisources. Therefore, as I think, the Occitan Wikisource should also benefit from this import, since at least it would expand the amount of works presented in the Wikisource. --Nigmont (talk) 20:47, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi everyone, Thank you @VIGNERON: for the post. Indeed, we are importing articles from the Jornalet to feed the Occitan wikisource with some quality modern content that is usable for young readers and learners amongst others. Doing it automatically will have to wait for a bit unless someone with the technical skills wants to give us a hand in this which we would be very grateful for :) --Eavqwiki 17:42, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

19:09, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

There was some discussion on IRC (#wikimedia and #wikimedia-tech [15] [16] [17]) about a possible Balinese Wikisource to host transcriptions of palm leafs, with the person who runs https://palmleaf.org/ . I'm not sure there's a summary yet, but there are some discussions around:

• w:ban:Pabligbagan:Kaca Utama#Balinese Wikisource
• m:Grants:Project/PanLex/Integration of palm-leaf transcription platform with Wikisource
• phabricator:T244796

In our discussion on February 11th I've suggested to start by hosting some of their files on Wikimedia Commons and creating some pages on Wikisource.org, to see how they can be formatted and to experiment with any potential issue in MediaWiki. I don't expect any major i18n issue in hosting and showing the content (even adding their existing transliteration to LanguageConverter should not be a big deal). Integrating their workflows may be more challenging, so it's useful for some palmleaf.org contributors to first try and see what we have in terms of extensions, gadgets and tools which may be of use for them as well. Nemo 08:47, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lautgesetz, you probably want to add something. However, feel free to start experimenting here on Wikisource.org (the multilingual Wikisource). Nemo 08:58, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nemo bis: Exciting. Would this be an XML-download-to-upload situation where we do it all in bulk and import the pages here? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:41, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It could be, but I wouldn't do that immediately: if it's a little more than a hundred pages, it's no problem to copy them here, but to test whether our infrastructure works well enough you don't need all of them from the beginning. I understand that palmleaf.org is not in danger of shutting down tomorrow, they're just thinking how to sustain it longer term.

Thanks for the go-ahead, @Nemo bis:. Experimenting on multilingual Wikisource will let us move everything carefully piece by piece and make sure it's solid. I don't think we'll want to do a bulk export/import because I need to consider the best way to make the content live in Wikisource, which will require some changes or reformatting. I'm going to start with one or two pages and see how it goes. And yes, palmleaf.org will keep going indefinitely until we can figure out how to do this. Lautgesetz (talk) 19:15, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T245357

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T245359

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T245360

Anyway, first problem (thanks Aldnonymous for pointing it out): translatewiki:Portal:Ban is formally in Bali script, but in reality it's in Latin. On the Bali Wikipedia both scripts are found, on separate pages connected by a manual link, like w:ban:Kalimantan Barat and w:ban:ᬓᬮᬶᬫᬦ᭄ᬢᬦ᭄​ᬓᭁᬄ (if you can't read the font, it's easy to find it on your software repository: in Fedora it's called google-noto-serif-balinese-fonts ). We probably need to split the locale, so that we have a Bali script locale. Then pages on ban.wiki and here can have their page content language report the actual script they're using, and the language converter would know what to do if installed. Also, palmleaf users would be able to start experimenting with writing in Bali script in our wikis: we may add a new input method, I'm told we're still accepting new ones and it's not too hard. We can then enable it right away on translatewiki.net for translators, then when the community wants it can also come here and on the Bali Wikipedia.

It seems that most users don't have a Bali font installed on their devices, so we'll need to add the Noto font to web fonts. Nemo 09:58, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In the meantime I've contacted some active BAN speaker and the original script contributors, once the specific on translatewiki is fixed, they will translate it to the script instead into the latin.Aldnonymous (talk) 14:45, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Noto Balinese is a good start, but the current version is incomplete and cannot render many character combinations needed for palmleaf.org. That's why PanLex has worked with Aditya Bayu Perdana to develop new Balinese fonts. I believe the NC license is an issue for Wikimedia, though? If so I can see if he is willing to change that. PanLex has also created an on-screen keyboard for Balinese (deployed on palmleaf.org currently) and a Keyman keyboard layout. We could try to port the Keyman layout as an input method, but the rules are pretty complex and context-sensitive. I can look into whether it would be possible. By the way, Google has hired Bayu to fix Noto Balinese, so eventually Noto will be fine, but I don't know when the new font will be available. Lautgesetz (talk) 19:15, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This has now been submitted as a project grant. PanLex would much appreciate any community comments or support. Thanks! Lautgesetz (talk) 23:05, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Lautgesetz: Why don't you also create m:Requests for new languages/Wikisource Balinese? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:51, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

16:16, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

20:59, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, for writing this text in English. If you could help to translate it, it would be appreciated.

You might know the new interface for edit conflicts (currently a beta feature). Now, Wikimedia Germany is designing an additional interface to solve edit conflicts on talk pages. This interface is shown to you when you write on a discussion page and another person writes a discussion post in the same line and saves it before you do. With this additional editing conflict interface you can adjust the order of the comments and edit your comment. We are inviting everyone to have a look at the planned feature. Let us know what you think on our central feedback page! -- For the Technical Wishes Team: Max Klemm (WMDE) 14:15, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

00:35, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

17:14, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Just to let you know about a running test into Index:Vocabolardlladinleterar.pdf. Both text and formatting come from extraction by pdf file itself (see Index talk:Vocabolardlladinleterar.pdf for a fast and rough hint); the book also uses templatestyles. --Alex brollo (talk) 08:21, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What in the world am I looking at here? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:58, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Koavf: Please be patient, and consider that tools & tricks, unluckely, are far from being user-friendly by now.... and, being hardly work-specific, perhaps they will never be useful again. Nevertheless I'll publish python code as soon as I will fix a couple of persisting, unexpected bugs. --Alex brollo (talk) 16:32, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Alex brollo: I'm patient I just have no clue what this resource is. What is it? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:41, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Are you interested about book contents or about extraction tools? About the latter: there are some excellent free command line tools to manipulate pdf contents, they are collected into xpdf utilites; it's relatively easy to use them by a python script. --Alex brollo (talk) 19:34, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Both actually but I specifically meant the content of the book. Grazie. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:40, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK! The best I can do is to give you a wikipedia link: en:w:Ladin_language and to ping the Italian friend that asked me for some tecnhical help: @Mizardellorsa:. This book is a dictionary of Ladin language. --Alex brollo (talk) 20:17, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Scusa l'italiano: L'Università di Bolzano ha pubblicato e rilasciato con licenza libera il primo dei volumi di un grande Vocabolario in cui ciascun lemma della lingua ladina dolomitica porta l'inficazione di tutti i passi in cui è contenuta nelle opere della letteratura. Il primo volume riguarda i testi dall'inizio della letteratura fino al 1879. I testi sono già quasi tutti caricati su Wikisource. Alex brollo sta curando sistemi automatici per per estrarre i testi e formattarli.--Mizardellorsa (talk) 20:21, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mizardellorsa: L'italiano ist buono. Grazie! —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:33, 16 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

21:18, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

17:05, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

As I proofread The Rose And The Ring, one of the best translators (in their language) I know of happens to be working on a Hindi translation for it.

• This translation is unlikely to be published in a form appealing to Wikisource in the near future -

These as well as any artistic works must have been published in a medium that includes peer review or editorial controls; this excludes self-publication.

• I can provide scans of their handwritten translation if it would help the proofreading process.
• The translator is not averse to it being published online under the terms of either CC0, CC-BY, or CC-BY-SA
• The original is underrated; a Hindi translation of such quality (given this translator's past record) unlikely to come again.

Given these circumstances, what would be the best way for me to help Wikisource and the commons benefit from this translation? -- Contrapunctus-1 (talk) 18:20, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

17:24, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

19:01, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

15:30, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

18:44, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

These past two months I have been working on translating a German excavation report about the House of the Prince of Naples in Pompeii. I requested permission from the original copyright holder, Professor Volker Michael Strocka and received his permission via email. One of the executive directors of Italian Wikipedia has asked if I could upload my translation to WikiSource in epub format. Is the permission email I received from Professor Stroka in which I explained that I wished to make the now out-of-print text freely available on the internet enough documentation? I also have an email from the German Archaeological Institute (the original publisher) saying they have no copyright claim and only the editor (Professor Strocka) now holds any copyright (the work was published in 1984). I have been contributing to Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons since 2007. Mharrsch (talk) 23:07, 21 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mharrsch: Since files are uploaded at c:, I would refer you there and your the OTRS system. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:40, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Should we consider adding a parameter to this template, to let users add a link with Meta-Wiki language requests? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:54, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Trizek (WMF), 18:01, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Trizek (WMF) 15:13, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

16:59, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

20:40, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi...!

Kindly help us to update Template:ALL TEXTS on Punjabi Wikisource. It's pending for a long time. We need your help to automatically update this page.

Click here for the link at local wiki

- Satpal Dandiwal (talk) 06:31, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Context for those of us like me who were going to try to emulate en.ws. I, unfortunately, am too ignorant to help. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:04, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

17:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

14:17, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

22:30, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

21:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

21:37, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello everyone,

An IP address uses to modify Walloon pages and this IP address adds useless characters. Unfortunately, I'm not an administrator on this Wiki, so it would be difficult for me to ban it by myself. Here it is.

Sincerely yours,

Èl-Gueuye-Noere (talk) 14:32, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done --Zyephyrus (talk) 15:02, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi to all! I would like to propose to the community to consider and discuss how to deal with following copyright case. During the course of my work on Moksha-language magazine "Kolkhozon eryaf" (Колхозонь эряф), I found, in the issue 1 of 1936 of that magazine, an article of authorship by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin. The article was originally a speech about Vladimir Lenin spoken by Stalin in 1924 shortly after the Lenin's death, and shortly after that the speech was printed (in Russian) in the form of an an article in the Soviet newspaper "Pravda" ("Truth") in the same 1924 year; and in the 1936 year that article was translated to the Moksha language and printed in the 1936's issue No. 1 of "Kolkhozon eryaf". Original Russian article by Stalin is PD in the US because it was published in 1924 — more than 95 years ago, and the copyright of the work has expired in the US. Several days ago (16.06.2020) I created local Stalin's author's page here: Author:Иосиф Виссарионович Сталин, and also published here that Russian work created by him: О Ленине: Речь на вечере кремлевских курсантов 28 января 1924 г. (Сталин). But the Moksha translation of that work has seemingly ambiguous copyright status. From the first hand, this translation should be copyrighted in the US and would go in PD only in the 1936 + 95 + 1 = 2032 year; from the other hand, it should be in PD in the US already. I asked for help on the English Wikisource, and there I tried to provide verbose explanation what the problem is, so I suppose it would be okay not to repeat the same information here but just to give link to that topic: en:Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2020#Question_on_US_copyrights_regarding_foreign_translated_works_and_URAA (changed the link. — Nigmont (talk) 10:30, 4 July 2020 (UTC)). You may read my explanation there, and also comments done by User:Xover and User:Prosfilaes (great thanks to both of them, expecially to Xover).[reply]

And, as it is seen from that discussion, there is no clear answer whether this translation is copyrighted in the US or not, though it seems that, much likely (per convincing arguments provided by Xover), it should be in PD in the US already. Though, Xover and Prosfilaes have not evidences on that case, and I guess, based on silence of others in that topic, other En-WS users have not such evidences too.

Now, I would like to ask for opinions from the community, especially from admins: whether publishing of that Moksha translation is allowed, or might be allowed?

First: may be, anybody of the users here, on the mul-WS, has fully convincing information which doubtlessly proves one of those two options, or real example of treatment of similar case in any US court? If yes, I would greatly appreciate if you share that information here. English Wikisource users seemingly have not such information or example, but may be someone here has such knowledge?

Second: if it occurs that nevertheless nobody knows any proofs regarding the case: then I propose to consider / assume that the work is in PD in US, and to allow me to publish it here, amongst other "Kolkhozon eryaf" articles. Reasons why I ask for that:

1. It is much likely, as seen from that discussion and opinion of Xover, that both copyrights (original's and translation's) should be treated separately and run concurrently, and now both of them are invalid in the US. But, of course, we are not yet sure altogether that it is really so.

2. The second reason is that this particular translation has zero commercial value in the US, so publishing it here does not infringe any commercial interests in US. There is no, I suppose, any persons amongst common US inhabitants, who can read and understand this (Moksha) language, and even if such people really exist in US then they are very few, and it is very doubtful that they would be ready to pay anything for this text. The only people in the US who might be interested in this text are linguist scholars who study Finno-Ugric languages (to which the Moksha language belongs), but those scholars can easily obtain any amount of Finno-Ugric texts without any payment just by contacting to institutions of Finno-Ugric regions of Russia, or to Finno-Ugric countries outside Russia — that is, Hungary, Finland, Estonia. So, for those scholars there is no need to buy this text for money. Also, this text is not suitable for translation to English, because it is much easier to make translation to English from the original Russian work than from a translation made to other language (especially from a translation to this language which is obviously much less known in America in comparison to Russian).

Now, I would be glad to see any opinions from the community on this issue. Regards, Nigmont (talk) 14:24, 20 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Update. I now change the link to the topic in En-WS Scriptorium/Help provided in my post above above, because that topic has already gone to the archive there. --Nigmont (talk) 10:30, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am personally convinced this must be PD per the reasoning I gave on enWS, but I cannot assert this with any certainty. To the best of my understanding this is not a question that can really be conclusively decided absent case law addressing the question directly. But an alternate way of looking at it—given uncertainty regarding its actual copyright status—is risk: what risk of liability would hosting this work impose on our contributors, readers, and re-users? As Nigmont adduces above, there seems exceedingly little commercial potential (probably the most common driver for legal action) for this work in the US and very little risk of getting sued, even iff it should turn out to be still in copyright. That would not be a valid argument for something known or likely to be in copyright, but I think it just might be the sensible approach for this particular case. --Xover (talk) 15:27, 20 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For such texts, zhwikisource currently allow them following m:United_States_non-acceptance_of_the_rule_of_the_shorter_term#Statement_from_Wikimedia_Foundation (unless if in the Office action cases, then we will temporary grant administrator right to *a T&S member*, and let them delete), not sure if ruwikisource allow them or not. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

English Wikisource does not wait for office actions to delete non-US works affected by the URAA, so the policy is stricter. Yet I can no longer trust its "alternate site" to host affected Chinese works.--Jusjih (talk) 00:18, 26 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

18:48, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

In the "Ways to handle United States non-acceptance of the rule of the shorter term" column, there's only one wiki (the zhwikisource) that allow limited tolerance, while several projects still say "Wikilivres", which is unfortunately a dead site. Should there have updates for them?

• bnwikisource: ?
• cswikisource: ?
• dewikisource: ?
• enwikisource: ?
• eswikisource: ?
• frwikisource: ?
• lawikisource: ?
• ruwikisource: ?

--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:57, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there should but I don't immediately know what those updates would be and the only languages out of that list that I understand are English and Spanish. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:41, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As I know, English Wikisource does not tolerate as much as Chinese Wikisource about the United States non-acceptance of the rule of the shorter term, while https://wikilivres.ru still works. Yet Chinese Wikisource users are not convinced to use a Russian site while upset about the death of Wikilivres. "Pre-1925 works still copyrighted in source country allowed" should be better filled in.--Jusjih (talk) 04:33, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please revert & revdel Special:Contributions/Ginrsig. A lock has been requested at m:srg. Cabayi (talk) 07:24, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

...also Special:Contributions/Dunkintoilet. Cabayi (talk) 08:35, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

16:30, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello. Apologies if you are not reading this message in your native language. Please help translate to your language if necessary. Thank you!

There are a lot of conversations happening about the future of our movement names. We hope that you are part of these discussions and that your community is represented.

Since 16 June, the Foundation Brand Team has been running a survey in 7 languages about 3 naming options. There are also community members sharing concerns about renaming in a Community Open Letter.

Our goal in this call for feedback is to hear from across the community, so we encourage you to participate in the survey, the open letter, or both. The survey will go through 7 July in all timezones. Input from the survey and discussions will be analyzed and published on Meta-Wiki.

Thanks for thinking about the future of the movement, --The Brand Project team, 19:39, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Note: The survey is conducted via a third-party service, which may subject it to additional terms. For more information on privacy and data-handling, see the survey privacy statement.

See m:Equals sign parser function template conflicts. This wiki is affected by this issue. Alexis Jazz (talk) 15:27, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Shruggy, Jimregan: I suggest renaming {{=}} to {{v=}} (v as Volapük) and substitute current use through a bot action. Other proposals? Objections? Ankry (talk) 16:14, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ankry: No objections from me (though I just wanted a regular '=', and didn't want to cause a fuss) -- Jimregan (talk) 19:19, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Actually... if you do, please skip Page:Jimín Mháire Thaidhg.djvu/123, Jimín Mháire Thaidhg/Gluais, Page:Jimín Mháire Thaidhg.djvu/118, Page:Jimín Mháire Thaidhg.djvu/120, Page:Jimín Mháire Thaidhg.djvu/121, Page:Irisleabhar na Gaedhilge vols 5+6.djvu/129, Page:Catilína - Ua Laoghaire.djvu/79, Page:Catilína - Ua Laoghaire.djvu/80, Page:Catilína - Ua Laoghaire.djvu/98, and Page:Irisleabhar na Gaedhilge vols 5+6.djvu/20, as {{=}} is what was intended there. TIA. -- Jimregan (talk) 19:26, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ankry, Jimregan: I would suggest {{doh}} as the character is a Double Oblique Hyphen, not an equals sign and not restricted to Volapük. Any apparent connection to Homer Simpson is entirely coincidental. Alexis Jazz (talk) 21:01, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexis Jazz: I am not sure if an English abbreviation is useful if the template is used basically in Volapük texts. We may create as many redirects as we wish or rename the template in future. Ankry (talk) 07:36, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ankry, Shruggy, Jimregan: well I won't stand in your way. If you want a name that references Volapük, I think {{tlml}} with a redirect at {{teilamalül}} would be more appropriate than v=, as it's not a Volapük equals sign. Also just having an actual equals sign in a template name looks confusing. But again, I won't stand stand in your way. Alexis Jazz (talk) 16:35, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ankry, Shruggy, Jimregan: On hiwikisource (the admins didn't respond to pings) I moved it to Teilamalül. (d:Q97143249) Alexis Jazz (talk) 14:32, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ankry, Shruggy, Jimregan: Time is running out. I suggest you move the template. If you don't, I'll move it to {{teilamalül}} which I believe is better than {{v=}}, but I won't revert if you pick that instead. Alexis Jazz (talk) 16:47, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Alexis's suggestion. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:49, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Moved to {{tm}}. @Jimregan: Consider using {{==}} then. Shruggy (talk) 21:59, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

20:18, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Sent by m:User:Elitre (WMF) 20:10, 9 July 2020 (UTC) - m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia/July 2020 announcement [reply]

19:13, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

See lij:. Thanks to User:MF-Warburg for importing. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:19, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Currently, the subcategories of Category:Languages are all over the place: some are named after their native name (e.g. Category:Plattdüütsch), others are named after their English name and have a local redirect (e.g. Category:Albanian and Category:Shqip), and still others use another form (e.g. Category:Mìng-dĕ̤ng-ngṳ̄/閩東語). Since some categories cannot have a localized form (Category:Multilingual, Category:Unknown Languages, Category:No linguistic content), I propose renaming all of these to start with ISO codes, followed by local names, and then defaulting to English in parenthesis. E.g. we would now have Category:sq Shqip (Albanian) and Category:mul (Multiple languages). This will help impose a uniform scheme to categorization, make it easier to actually find a language, and make it clear to new users how to name languages that are added. I'm happy to get feedback for the next two weeks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 13:42, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally, all content pages should be in a subcategory of Category:Languages, even if they are in a subcategory of that. E.g. Category:Language has the subcategory Category:Magazine published in that language: all those pages should also be in Category:Language so that the total page counts on Wikisource:Languages and on the various Main Pages are accurate. I think I'll do a couple of subcategories today just so others can see what I mean and if there's some pushback, I can revert. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:07, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just posting again to make sure others see my edits: I had a pseudobot flag turned on for awhile as I did maintenance work. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:04, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have already done this with Category:Mis (Uncoded languages), Category:Mul (Multiple languages), Category:Und (Undetermined), and Category:Zxx (No linguistic content) for starters. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:00, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I encourage everyone to take a look at Wikisource:Languages to see some of the changes that I've made. I have updated the table with some semantics and new category names. It should be pretty clear which ones have been moved. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:19, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly  Oppose. Proposed names are intricate and uncomfortable (too many letters, brackets etc). Let every language community itself will determine name for their category. At least do not move categories with English names. --Wadorgurt (talk) 09:25, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, @Koavf:

Regarding your initial proposal: "I propose renaming all of these to start with ISO codes, followed by local names, and then defaulting to English in parenthesis". As of me personally, such renaming does not seem to me something bad, but nevertheless, as I think, it would be better to arrange some voting first — whether active users of local wikisources here support such change in categorizing, or they oppose it. It seems to me that most users have accustomed to the current naming and some of them might reject such change.

But regarding your second statement: "Additionally, all content pages should be in a subcategory of Category:Languages, even if they are in a subcategory of that" — sorry, but I strongly disagree with that. As I understand, the purpose which you mean to achieve with that recategorizing — to get "accurate numbers", as yourselves said: "so that the total page counts on Wikisource:Languages and on the various Main Pages are accurate". Firstly, which page counts you want to obtain this way? Counts of normal content pages only, without proofread pages; or counts of content pages together with proofread pages (that is, together with items in the "Page" namespace)? You should know, that currently some local wikisources include in their categories not only content pages but also proofread pages; but other wikisources do not include proofread pages — only content pages are collected in those ones. So, regardless which kind of numbers you want to gain — you are not able to get precisely any of those by this way: for part of Wikisources you get the first kind of statistics, and for others — the second, but you never get any of them for all wikisources at once. Secondly: such moving may cause troublesome mess in the form of mixture of main pages, subpages and proofread pages, which would occur after proposed actions. For example, let's look on category Category:Мокшень which content is completely created by me. Currently it has well-organized structure, in which each content page is represented in the main category by its "entry point", which may be in a form of: a redirection which leads to its associated content page (for example, Критик-революционер leads to subpage Колхозонь эряф/1936/01/Критик-революционер), or a version page — for different versions of the same work (for example, Ульхть ударник), or a disambiguation page (for example Тунда) — for same-name works which are really different. And if you do as you are intending now, then that your action would cause in that category, at first, a duplication of counts of works (because their entry points will be in the same category as the content pages themselves, and the same work is counted twice), and at second, it would fill the Moksha category with hundreds of various subpages (of Kolkhozon eryaf and Valda yan magazines, as well as chapters of multi-chaptered books) and thousands of proofread pages. And it would be then a total trouble to navigate through such mess of various items, and it would be very hard for a reader to find there something to read. So I urgently ask you not to do such "categorizing" — at least to my categories Category:Мокшень and Category:Эрзянь — the content of them both was created all (or almost all) by me, and I spent a lot of time of efforts to fill them, so I hope my work here will be respected and you would not do such an abuse to the look of those categories. Regarding all other local Wikisources here: though I am not sure of course, but I am inclined to think that your such actions also can make the same trouble to other users as well as it does to me.

And if counts of pages are so urgently needed, that I propose to consider another ways to get them. 1-st option available: to implement a gadget or module (Lua script) which would take given language category and pass through it and get all desired counts; and if different kinds of stats are needed — then it may be implemented by different fuctions of that gadget / script; and in the table with local WS languages, those functions may be invoked and report correct statistics and display them in the cells of the table. 2-nd option: to arrange a bot's algorithm which will do needed calculations of stats, and this bot may be lauched, for example, on daily basis, and it will update counts in the table with actual values. I think, any of these options is much more preferable then forced recategorizing of items in language categories which can annoy, frustrate and irritate users. I think, you should let local Wikisources go as their users want to go, and avoid to impose any forced and violent changes in the inner structure of their categories, as well as to other kinds of formatting accepted on the pages of those Wikisources. --Nigmont (talk) 07:04, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nigmont: Thanks for this thorough response. I don't see any viable means to create any kind of vote, so posting to the Scriptorium seemed like the best way to get others' attention. Do you have a better venue where I could post? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:08, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Koavf: No, I don't mean that you necessarily must do that in other place — the Scriptorium seems to be well suitable for that (though, page Wikisource:Votes does exist — may be, it would be more proper to arrange some voting there?). But the form of your proposal seems to me to be not quite appropriate. Look as you did: your informed about your intentions, but without awaiting any reactions, you already started all those mass changes, notwithstanding that for some users more time may be required to realize your ideas and how they could come in touch with their Wikisources and their work (and notwithstanding that you yourself said that "I'm happy to get feedback for the next two weeks" which for me personally also has a meaning of "I will wait for next two weeks, and if nobody is disagree — I start the changes", but you really started changes without awaiting for those two weeks). Many users might miss your topic at first (not everybody regularly visits the Scriptorium), and many come to Wikisource not on evereyday basis. I think a more correct way to settle an agreement would be:

For first point (renaming the categories): I think you had to create a vote, invite (ping) there main contributors (you may look for example Wikisource:Active tests — there active contributors may be seen), as well as other admins, and put the possible renaming, proposed by you, for voting: Yes or No, or Neutral. Because your proposed renaming is a mass change and it would touch all the Wikisources here, so a more broad approval, I believe, is required here than just create a topic and, on just seeing that in couple days nobody had commented and answered, to start changes without further awaiting. The change is broad and massive, so any haste here is not necessary and even may be harmful (anyway, the wikisources existed in that state for many years and nobody attempted to change that, so the broad changes must be cautious because they may be sensitive).

For the second point (re-categorizing): as I said above, I actively oppose such change, but nevertheless I agree for voting (separately from previous vote, since this is quite a different quiestion) for this point as well: and if majority of users accept your change — then so be it, I'll subdue if such is the consensus. Anyway, such change is also a mass change, and more broad acceptance is required on this point as well. --Nigmont (talk) 07:58, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

13:51, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

I would like to inform the community that currently interwikis and Wikidata links are broken on authors' pages: even if the Wikidata item exists for an author page and is correctly referenced in the corresponding parameter of the Template:Author, then whatever — in the "Plain sister" pane at the right top corner the message "Search wikidata" is displayed (as if Wikidata had not been normally found), and interwikis on the left are absent. Examples: Author:Максим Горький in the Moksha WS, or else Author:Peadar Ua Laoghaire in the Irish (Gaeilge) WS. I am not sure but maybe this issue is related to recent (27.07.2020) changes of Template:Author done by User:Koavf (see revisions' history). Could anyone try to fix this problem and restore normal displaying of interwikis and Wikidata? --Nigmont (talk) 22:33, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how this would cause interwiki links to break. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:32, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Still not sure what you're talking about as the sister links appear before and after my most recent revision. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:35, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't assuredly assert that the reason is the change in Template:Author made by you — I just did a guess (which might be wrong, of course), a hypothesis. Meanwhile, you also did an edit in template Plain sister: (54 revisions imported from en:Template:Plain_sister: Highly-linked page, important), as I understand, this template is invoked from Template:Author: maybe you forgot to import something which also needed in connection with that template? Though, it is also just a guess, please don't think that I affirm this supposition as an absolute truth. All this topic should be considered just as a proposal to solve the problem, which obviously exists for now. The only thing in which I am sure — that earlier in July interwikis were OK and recently they disappeared for some reason, still unknown. And I just want that somebody would help with that. --Nigmont (talk) 01:10, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A good guess but reverting that didn't seem to do anything. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:04, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Module:Interwiki is working on this page. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:07, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

15:43, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

This bot will create Index pages for files from the ongoing batch upload on Commons relating to the active Balinese palm-leaf manuscript project grant. I've created a few of these pages already, which you can see here. Creating index pages in advance simplifies the workflow for Balinese contributors moving from Palmleaf.org and ensures uniformity across the project work. The index page creation will run as a simple python script using the mwclient module and will pause 30 seconds between pages.

Note that it is not possible to fill in most metadata (author, publisher, etc.) because most works are anonymous manuscripts. In some cases additional metadata (e.g. year) may become available once Balinese contributors are able to transcribe the work, but that requires creating the index page first so they can work on it.

--Lautgesetz (talk) 20:37, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@-jkb-, Ooswesthoesbes, Zyephyrus: ^^^ Ankry (talk) 16:47, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Lautgesetz: Could you please create a user page for the bot acount, so we know who is the owner and we can easily contact him in case of a malfunction? --Ooswesthoesbes (talk) 17:28, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done. The user page is here. --Lautgesetz (talk) 18:19, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indications too on Commons and your bot has been approved there. --Zyephyrus (talk) 19:16, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Correct. For the user page here I just put the tasks it will be doing on this wiki. --Lautgesetz (talk) 19:22, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How many edits a day will your bot - appoximately - do? -jkb- (talk) 21:09, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Right now all it will do is create the index pages (2,854 pages, one every 30 seconds = about 24 hours total). If any batch updates are needed to those pages in the future, then I will run it again for that. It will not run permanently in the background. In the future it will be used to copy existing content from Palmleaf.org into corresponding pages in the Page: namespace. For any given task it will always be a single run. I can modify the pause between edits if necessary. --Lautgesetz (talk) 21:24, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done The waiting period for a week has expired and it looks good. Please make sure any new pages are categorized in a language category or a subcategory of a language category (you have done this already up until now). --Ooswesthoesbes (talk) 15:54, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: It seems to me that something is wrong with that bot: it is working now, but its edits are currently not marked with "bot" (b) tag, so they are not filtered from "Recent changes" page. As I understand, one of the goals of acquiring the "bot" flag for an account is tagging bot routine edits with bot flag and filter them out from Recent changes. But it has been not done for this bot, and it is not a good thing. @Lautgesetz: could you please set up your bot, in order its edits were tagged with b mark? --Nigmont (talk) 20:46, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll try to fix that. On Commons the instructions suggested I shouldn't use the bot flag for the batch upload, but I can see how the recent edits are different. --Lautgesetz (talk) 22:55, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm having it make all edits with the bot flag now, but not sure if it's working. --Lautgesetz (talk) 23:32, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is very remarkable.. As far as I can see, the bot flag is on the account; as such it should be filtered out. Any of the other admins know what's happening here? @Ankry/-jkb-/Zyephyrus. --Ooswesthoesbes (talk) 06:27, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Unsure which exactly pywikibot script is used and with which parameters. Maybe the bot should logout/login after it got the flag? AFAIR, pywikibot gives a warning when doing edits not marked as bot edits. Or, maybe ask at #wikimedia-tech if still unresolved? Ankry (talk) 07:13, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but problems with bots is not something I can judge :-) -jkb- (talk) 20:03, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

what is en-ws' policy on transcribing comics, and if it is allowed, any advice on doing so? Arlo Barnes (talk) 05:54, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

apologies, thought I was on en-ws, which I see now has a category:comics. Still, the question stands for those existing in mul's purview; I particular, I have my eye on the many languages of w:en:Pepper&Carrot. Arlo Barnes (talk) 12:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Arlo Barnes: I think there is no special policy about comics here, so the general ones apply: it has to be PD-US (or CC-BY-SA 3.0 licensed), published, and not suitable for a separate domain Wikisource. Ankry (talk) 16:37, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Max Klemm (WMDE) 09:14, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

16:06, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

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Trizek (WMF) (talk) 13:49, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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