User talk:Leibide
Hello Leibide, welcome to the multilingual Wikisource! Thanks for your interest in the project; we hope you'll enjoy the community and your work here.
This wiki is the original Wikisource wiki, originally hosting works in many languages. The larger collections have been spawned into separate projects, leaving this wiki to serve as a central collaboration point, and as an environment where works without a language subdomain can be started. Refer to our languages list to see which languages still reside on this wiki. You can find a list of the separate language projects on the main page or here and you may want to look at the our coordination page for limitations on placing certain works on the separate language projects.
Most questions and discussions about the community are in the Scriptorium.
The Community Portal lists tasks you can help with if you wish. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me on my talk page!
Ankry (talk) 16:59, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
Muintir Bhaile Átha Cliath
Hi Leibide,
As I mentioned just now on your user talk page at the English Wikisource, I am now going to add a little information to your user talk page here on the Multilingual Wikisource. Buckle up because now it will be a rather steep learning curve on the technical side! 😀
The following is general technical information based on the explanation that Jon Harald Søby gave me of what the policies and practices are here. He may need to correct me on some of the points if I've misunderstood, but hopefully the outline will help you get a mental image of how this will work.
The work here will involve four main "moving parts": 1) a file containing a scan of the original English-language Dubliners; 2) an "Index page"; 3) a set of wikipages, one for each page in the scanned file, in which you will do the actual translation; and 4) a wikipage somewhere like Muintir Bhaile Átha Cliath where we will publish the finished translation for readers.
The relationship between these four things is roughly as follows: the scan of the original is our starting point and serves for verifying that the transcribed (or in this case, translated) text is true to the original. The "Index page" is a partly technical thing required by the software we use, that, among several other things, contains a mapping from the physical page offsets in the PDF or DjVu file and the actual human readable logical page numbers of the work (the ones printed in the book: for example, the page numbered as "page 1" often occurs on the thirteenth page in the PDF file). Based on this information the software generates a set of "virtual" wikipages, one for each page in the book, on which you can do the transcription or translation. And once those per-page wikipages are done, the software uses the information in the Index page to automatically combine them together for presentation on Muintir Bhaile Átha Cliath.
In your specific case, the scan of Dubliners already exists at:
And based on that I have created a basix Index page at:
Toward the bottom of the Index page you will see a long list of links to every physical page in the scan file, each labelled with the logical page number that physical page corresponds to. Pages that are outside the numbering sequence have been given special names related to their role or function (for example, the title page) and pages that have no content in the book (end pages and such) have been simply marked with a "—".
When you click on one of those links you'll be taken to that wikipage, and since it doesn't exist yet you'll be presented with an editing interface. On the right will be an image of the page for reference, and on the left will be a large text field in which you can add your translation for that page. The text field will be pre-populated with the English text (because most of the time we transcribe works rather than translate them) which you should delete and replace with your translated text.
Once you finish with each page you should set the radio buttons down at the bottom to "Proofread" and save it (the big blue "Publish page" button). If you just want to save a partially finished page to continue later, leave the radio button set to "Not proofread" when you save it. There is a help page at Help:Page status explaining this in more depth, but those are the essential points.
One issue you will run into is that since sentences in the original are often split across pages, and translations inevitably alter the sentence structure, it will not always be possible to get those sentence fragments in the translations on the same page as in the original. In these cases you should just use common sense and your own judgement to choose what to put on which page. The general principle is that we try to approximate the layout and formatting of the original publication, but do not follow it slavishly.
In any case, hopefully that will be enough to at least get you started.
If you need help you can send a notification to Jon Harald by adding the code {{ping|Jon Harald Søby}} in a message here and then signing your message (use the signature button in the editor toolbar, or manually type out ~~~~, four tilde characters, at the end of your message). It's a bit confusing, but that's how the software here understands that you want to send a notification. Alternatively, you can go to User talk:Jon Harald Søby (Jon Harald's user talk page) and use the "Add topic" button to leave a message for him there. Messages left on a user's own user talk page always generate notifications (unless you go out of your way to disable them), so if you are uncertain whether you got the "ping" codes right that's one way to make sure.
Jon Harald is the expert here so you'll mostly want to talk to him; but as he is a volunteer like everyone else here he is not necessarily always available. You should therefore also always feel free to contact me in the same way if you need to. I also see Ankry posted the standard welcome message for you here. Ankry is also an administrator here on Multilingual Wikisource and should be able to help you if you get stuck.
Best of luck with your project, and I'll be looking forward to seeing the result.
PS. Here I have inserted the signature using the button in the toolbar: --Xover (talk) 08:39, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
copyright
Please note, that we can only host in Wikisource texts that (1) copyright has already expired or (2) were published under a CC-BY-SA 3.0 compatible license. While the original author's text copyright has expired already, I am unable to determine copyright status of the translation made by Domhnall Nagreine. We need at least an evidence that (a) the translator or their heirs granted a CC-BY-SA 3.0 compatible license to this translation, or (b) the translator died more than 70 years ago, or (c) the translation was published before 1925, or (d) the translation was initially published in US without copyright registration in the US Copyright Office or without later copyright renewal.
Instructions how the copyright holder can grant a free license, if copyright has not expired yet, is here.
Texts/books/translation without appropriate evidence of free copyright status will most likely be deleted. Ankry (talk) 09:30, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Ankry: If you are referring to the PDF files uploaded at English Wikisource (s:File:Muintir Bhaile Átha Cliath.pdf, s:File:Muintir Duibhlinne2.pdf, s:File:Muintir Duibhlinne3.pdf), it is my understanding that these are a user translation by Leibide themselves. In other words, when the translation is added as wikitext here the translation will be covered by the default license for contributions:
{{CC-by-sa-3.0}}. --Xover (talk) 10:16, 8 August 2020 (UTC)- @Xover: They are signed to be translations by Domhnall Nagreine. We have no evidence that User:Leibide is Domhnall Nagreine and I doubt we can verify this on-wiki. Ankry (talk) 10:31, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Ankry: The existing translation was uploaded to IA by Domhnall Nagreine (it is the first search hit for the translator's name in a Google search) under the Public Domain Mark 1.0 license, so we can certainly use that tag instead if needed. Google also reveals several Gaelige blog and local news posts making note of the translation and pointing to the copy at IA, so there is little chance that this is an unauthorised upload by a third party. --Xover (talk) 11:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- Well, this may fail o Commons, but should be OK here. Ankry (talk) 21:18, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Ankry: The existing translation was uploaded to IA by Domhnall Nagreine (it is the first search hit for the translator's name in a Google search) under the Public Domain Mark 1.0 license, so we can certainly use that tag instead if needed. Google also reveals several Gaelige blog and local news posts making note of the translation and pointing to the copy at IA, so there is little chance that this is an unauthorised upload by a third party. --Xover (talk) 11:01, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Xover: They are signed to be translations by Domhnall Nagreine. We have no evidence that User:Leibide is Domhnall Nagreine and I doubt we can verify this on-wiki. Ankry (talk) 10:31, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Dear Jon Harald Søby, I have learned from Ankry that it is possible to publish a modern Irish Gaelic translation of Dubliners, originally written by James Joyce. He/she has also given helpful instructions as to how to begin, as can be seen on this page. Ankry instructed me to address you first in future for Multilingual Wikisource if I have a query.
Ankry has created an index page for my translation. The problem is, I would like to change the title of the translation from Muintir Bhaile Átha Cliath to Muintir Duibhlinne if possible. It is my fault that the confusion arose- I had uploaded several files with different titles to English Wikisource before I learned how it’s done. Actually, I have two different translations of this same work (Dubliners). I would like to make that available on Wikisource eventually too, under a different title. For now though, I would like to focus on publishing the modern Irish Gaelic translation, using this new title (Muintir Duibhlinne). I don’t see how I can change the title of the title page from my end. Could you do it? If it’s simpler to just delete it and start again, then I’ll do this.
Ankry also advised how to provide an open copyright licence. I would just like to clarify that I am Domhnall Nagreine, as Ankry correctly surmised. Or rather, this is a pen-name I chose. A Domhnall na Gréine is just a nickname for a lie-in-the-sun or daydreamer (https://www.teanglann.ie/ga/fgb/D%c3%b3nall). My username is Leibide and I have no problem giving my real name if needed. I’d like to keep the pen-name for the translation though. I will follow Ankry’s advice for clearing copyright. @Jon Harald Søby: Leibide (talk) 17:09, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
- Hello Leibide, nice to see you here!
- The name of the index page doesn't actually matter. The only thing that is important is that it matches the filename for the scan exactly. Some filenames are nice, some are not so nice, and most are somewhere in the middle. When you have finished transcribing (or, in this case, translating) a work, you will compile all the pages into a page in the main namespace (in this case, on the page Muintir Duibhlinne), that fetches the pages from the index page. You can see an example of how this is done on Im Schlaraffenland and its subpages (click "edit" to view the source). Does that explanation make sense? Jon Harald Søby (talk) 07:32, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, that explains it handsomely. I have everything I need now to work on this. There will be no activity from me until mid-November, but I will get down to it then. I'm exited about it already. Leibide (talk) 17:58, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
- I've got down to doing it now - I've transcribed the first seven stories so far.
Question: can I add a preface to the text, as well footnotes within the translation itself, or other such explanatory notes? I've done this already with what I've finished so far in it. The preface is on page 5 in the index. If necessary, I'll delete this again, but I'd really love to include this extra detail. The preface gives some explanations for the editing choices I took throughout the translation, and the explanatory notes, complete with links, just help a little, I hope, with the understanding of the text itself.
By the way, I went back to the name Muintir Bhaile Átha Cliath in the end as title for the translation, after much hesitation. I go into quite a long commentary on my alternative title for it in the preface though. Leibide (talk) 11:31, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- I've got down to doing it now - I've transcribed the first seven stories so far.
Sandbox
Hi! :) I saw you used to sandbox for a personal project. That's not what the general sandbox is meant for. I moved your contents to your own, personal sandbox, where you can work on it further without any interference: User:Leibide/Sandbox. Greetings, --Ooswesthoesbes (talk) 07:00, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
- Oops! I had not realised that I'd been doing that the wrong way. Now that you've pointed it out, it makes sense. I'll use this personal sandbox instead. Thank you. @Ooswesthoesbes:Leibide (talk) 11:27, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
- No problem! :) --Ooswesthoesbes (talk) 13:10, 20 November 2020 (UTC)