Talk:James House (singer)

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It has been proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

• James House (singer) → James House
• James House → James House (disambiguation)

– The only other entities with the exact name "James House" are James House (Rogers, Arkansas) and James House (Pensacola, Florida), which both have less than one page view per day. The singer has over 25. Everything else on the dab page James House except for the singer's album is a partial title match with at least one word other than "James House" in the title. From this evidence, it's abundantly clear that the singer is by far the most common result for people looking for the exact name "James House", and should therefore be the primary topic. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 00:31, 29 June 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 05:08, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per nom (pageviews). Station1 (talk) 20:49, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• This distinction of exact name vs partial title matches is odd. If any of these places aren't actually known as James House, why are they even listed there? Conversely, if the places are known to our readers as such, why would we not include them as legitimate topics in the discussion of this ambiguity?

Let's apply the fine WP:DPT guideline and have a look at the usage aspect. Here's what I found in the page views: all-time monthly page views for the disambiguation page and the singer, all-time mass views of all items linked from the list and in the clickstreams:

So, the singer's article gets some viewership, but it's not particularly significant (the page about the architects of one of those James Houses gets five times as many readers on average), and it's not clear how it's particularly larger than the viewership of the other items - its 20/day is hard to compare with various indices (where not nearly all the traffic is just for a James House listed there). The viewership of the James House disambiguation page is so small that it's been hard for our system to identify clickstreams from it, it likely gets largely anonymized (no data points in the last year). If we compare the numbers for the few months from earlier years I happened to have, in May '22 it was 11 clickstreams with 21 views (~52%); in November '20 11 over 19 (~58%), and in November '17 18 over 28 (~64%). Some sources and destinations might have been anonymized there, too, which might mean it was really something like 80 or 90% where a primary topic by usage could be assumed, but we can't actually know that. It would be worth an experiment, though.

Continuing with the WP:DPT guideline, we should consider the long-term significance of all of the relevant items. As there is no discussion of that at all in the discussion above, I will default to saying oppose. (Please feel free to apply the guideline completely and ping me afterwards if it should be reconsidered.) --Joy (talk) 21:21, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re "If any of these places aren't actually known as James House, why are they even listed there?", I agree completely and have cleaned up the page so that all the entries not clearly called James House are now in a See Also section. I haven't bothered to look at each one of those to see if they are ever called James House, so have not deleted them completely from the page, but if anyone wants to delete any or all, I have no objection. Station1 (talk) 22:56, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Station1 but that literally goes against the example I mentioned above - the D. L. James House is referred to by the article that describes it as "James House". Can you please go back to the list and check that you didn't make similar mistakes elsewhere? --Joy (talk) 13:30, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The only source I can find, https://gamblehouse.org/crossings-coincidences/ , calls it the D. L. James House, so I've updated the header in that article accordingly. But if you have a source calling it simply James House, by all means it should be moved up on the page. Station1 (talk) 17:34, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also will need proof that any of those places is commonly called just the "James House" and not by its full name. So far I'm not finding evidence. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 02:26, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Station1 wait, what do you mean? It seemed easy enough to use normal google to find references to James House Greenhouse and Charles Greene’s adjacent James House main house at [1], The James House. Original Plan, Charles Greene at [2], Charles and Henry Greene [at the front terrace of the James house, Carmel Highlands] at [3]. If our average reader stumbles across sources like these, it seems completely reasonable that that would be the term they'd look up. --Joy (talk) 11:33, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good finds. I've moved that one up on the dab page. Station1 (talk) 22:52, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging @Caldorwards4: @Martin4647: @Sammi Brie: @ChrisTofu11961: @Jax 0677: for relevant topics. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 02:27, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support moves - Support per page views. Do you know why I was pinged? --Jax 0677 (talk) 00:01, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. No primary topic per long-term significance. All the houses listed could be referred to as "James House". -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:23, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Necrothesp: Says who? Prove it. 99% of the other James Houses are partial title matches. Theoretically, the city of Cooper, Texas could be called "James House" but that doesn't mean it should be on the dab page too. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 13:28, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Says who? Prove it. Are you serious? There are twenty houses on that list that could be referred to as the James House per WP:COMMONSENSE. The fact they may only be partial titles matches is therefore utterly irrelevant. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Necrothesp: Since when does "common sense" preclude a move? I could say it's common sense that my left big toenail has an article, but that doesn't make it so. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:33, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @TenPoundHammer while Necrothesp and myself often disagree in RMs, where I think he puts too much weight on what appears to be more gut feeling than common sense, that can't be countered with made up statistics :) In 2009/11, Doncram had written a list of 20 houses he thought qualified as "James House". Over the course of this discussion, we've verified this term for at least 1 of them, which is 5%, which means the partial title match claim could only ever be valid for 95%, it just can't be 99%. Rather than arguing about this on a theoretical level, let's try to prove or disprove any kinds of ratios based on what can be found in the sources. For example, if you showed some reasonable sample of these entries, like 10% or 20%, were never referred to as just "James House", it would be much easier to believe that that is the case for most of them. --Joy (talk) 15:11, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I have to say I see no difference between gut feeling and common sense! -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:48, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Country Music, WikiProject Biography, and WikiProject Musicians have been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 05:08, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]