Talk:Scottish Gaelic

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This article is written in Scottish English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Text and/or other creative content from Scottish Gaelic was copied or moved into History of Scottish Gaelic with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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Take a look at the current version of the Scottish government webpage [1]. It has been changed, with the new version saying :

• "Bills and legislation
  The Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005 gained royal assent in June of that year, giving Gaelic greater protection and prominence and working towards securing its status as an official language of Scotland."

The old version, that existed on 6/6/24, said: "The Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005 gained royal assent in June of that year, confirming Gaelic as an official language of Scotland."

This change therefore makes clear that the 2005 act merely gives an ambition and does not make Gaelic an official language. (Of course, we got that from the act itself, but at the time, this conflicted with the government website.) I think the fact that the webpage has been changed closes this matter, with Gaelic not being an official language of Scotland. ThoughtIdRetired _TIR 19:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for discovering this. I propose that this link should be used to cite the content, and the use of the Act as a source be removed, for all the usual reasons regarding use of a primary source. The content in the article should also be changed to say something like "The Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005 works towards securing its status as an official language of Scotland.", so that the article reflects what sources actually say, rather than containing conclusions about what they don't say, as it does presently.--Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:03, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But you presumably agree that mention of the "official language" in Scotland in the info box should go. I would be inclined to use the source found today to support the article content, but to also include the Act as a source, since that would assist the encyclopaedia user (whom we all serve). I am not going to make those edits now as I am getting ready for two days on the road and consequently doing anything in Wikipedia until, perhaps, Wednesday. Obviously, anyone else can make appropriate edits. ThoughtIdRetired _TIR 20:22, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ThoughtIdRetired Agreed. The act can be cited to verify its existence. But it cannot be used to verify analysis of its contents. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 07:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The act can be used to verify its content. There is no need for any analysis of its content, because it is written at a reading level that is surely a basic requirement for a Wikipedia editor.
Incidentally, I have removed the info box element that appears to state that Gaelic is an official language of Scotland. This disagrees with the article – and the info box is meant to summarise the article. The deleted element also has a {{failed verification}} tag on it, which is another reason it should not be in the article. ThoughtIdRetired _TIR 19:12, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Someone explain to me, incidentally, what makes scotland.org a RS? A brand marketing site? Akerbeltz (talk) 10:37, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's owned by the Scottish Government. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 10:54, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is probably a useful place to store comparable legislation in New Zealand[2]. I am not specifically looking for any comment on this at present, but this official language legislation may be a useful point of comparison at some time in the future. ThoughtIdRetired _TIR 08:38, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Scottish Languages Bill is currently being considered. The first draft of the bill can be found at [3] .

The bill starts with "An Act of the Scottish Parliament to make provision about support for the Gaelic and Scots languages; to make provision about education in relation to Gaelic and Scots; and for connected purposes." So, that's "support" not "official language of Scotland".

It mentions "The Gaelic language has official status within Scotland." which appears to have no real meaning whatsoever. The official briefing[4] that accompanies the bill has an estimate of its financial cost over 5 years of £700,000. This is a particularly small budget for anything, let alone making a minority language a country's official language.

In short, if enacted, I cannot see that this bill will make any changes apart from allowing parishes with more than 20% of their population proficient in Gaelic to use the language more in local affairs. That falls far short of an official language. So I don't think the article will need to change in any great way if the bill is passed. There may well be some press comment when that happens which may be useful, but that's it.

For information, the deadline for the bill in stage 1 is 20 Sep 2024, as per [5]. Its progress can be followed at [6] ThoughtIdRetired _TIR 19:34, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]