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June 24[edit]

Icelandic cod per part of fish and chips, recipe is sold in Iceland.[edit]

Per the talk page, and my "unsuccessful" attempt in adding Iceland under "Other countries", I decided to make a "valid point", and make a comment. In quote, "Last year, I took a trip to Iceland and only visited the Southern part of the country. Throughout my time there, I have noticed that restaurants and food trailers do in fact serve fish and chips, per part of the Icelandic cod. However, I highly recommend doing some deep searching for sources to prove this, unless you can spend some time yourself going to the country or do similar search results to find out this reliability. Also consider expanding into looking for more countries that house this recipe." So, I need some justification on this, and I'd like to know how hard it is to find a source for this matter. Mod creator 🏡 🗨 📝 03:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand the use of the preposition per in "per part" and "per their Icelandic cod".  --Lambiam 03:42, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Personal experience is never acceptable as a source for information in a Wikipedia article, but if you can find a reliable published source which verfifies your experience, you can of course add a summary of what that source says.
As for how hard it is to find a source: I guess that depends on whether the sources exist and how readily available. Most people start looking for sources by googling. Maybe somebody at WT:WikiProject Iceland can point you at a source. (The project is "not very active", but the talk page still gets some attention). ColinFine (talk) 09:43, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How about this blog from an Icelandic travel agency or this from Iceland's [self-proclaimed] "biggest, best and most widely read English-language publication"? AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Blogs are almost never acceptable - only if the blogger is a recognised authority on the topic of the blog. But the Grapevine piece looks OK to me - it's got a byline, and the site has an editor-in-chief, and specifically says that it is not sponsored content. ColinFine (talk) 22:20, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 25[edit]

"The City from Burma"?[edit]

While improving an article about a Burmese restaurant, I came across a source that said this:

Sherry Dung, who has owned the restaurant with her husband, Kevin Chen, since the two immigrated to The City from Burma more than 20 years ago, said the two of them were “surprised” when they got the news.

Is the phrase "The City from Burma" a real thing, or is it just another typo? TWOrantulaTM (enter the web) 02:39, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the direct link to the source if you need it: [1] TWOrantulaTM (enter the web) 02:39, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you're parsing the statement correctly. The source you linked to is the San Francisco Examiner and so is written from the PoV of San Francisco. So "The City" is simply their way of referring to San Francisco e.g. [2] [3]. The sentence is simply saying that the two people immigrated to San Francisco from Burma more than 20 years ago. It's not referring to a city in Burma/Myanmar. Likewise if a New York or Paris source talks about something being in "The City" they would generally be referring to New York or Paris respectively. Nil Einne (talk) 02:51, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@TrademarkedTWOrantula: not a typo. The SF Examiner is using "The City" to mean "San Francisco". They immigrated to San Francisco from Burma. RudolfRed (talk) 02:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For a good example of the SF Examiner's use of "The City", see "How families can spend the summer in The City". While Steinbeck referred to SF as "the City",[4] the capitalization of "The" is, AFAIK, peculiar to the Examiner. The Chronicle usually just writes "the city" in lower case.  --Lambiam 08:03, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Herb Caen, 1975: "'The city that was never a town,' said an admiring Will Rogers, to which Rudyard Kipling added, 'and inhabited by perfectly mad people.' Viriditas (talk) 03:14, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In Britain, "the City" always means the City of London. Alansplodge (talk) 20:38, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yann Zopf, John Scott and Carolina Klint from the World Economic Forum[edit]

Anyone know what citizenship these people have? Google gives nothing--Trade (talk) 13:56, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zopf got his Bachelor's degree from University Lumière Lyon 2 and his Master's from University Jean Moulin Lyon 3,[5] so it is quite plausible he is French. Yann is a Breton–French given name, which lends further support to this guess.  --Lambiam 15:24, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to his LinkedIn profile, Scott got his Bachelor's degree from the University of Oxford and his Master's from Cranfield School of Management; he lives in the Greater Guildford Area. It is a reasonable assumption that he is British.  --Lambiam 15:43, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The earliest education on Klint's LinkedIn profile is from Uppsala University, and she lives in Stockholm County. Both the given name and the surname are common in Sweden, so everything points to her being Swedish.  --Lambiam 15:55, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]


June 27[edit]

question about the new anime Suicide_Squad_Isekai[edit]

I live in Canada and I don't have Hulu or Max. Is there a way I can watch Suicide_Squad_Isekai when it premieres? Will it be on Crunchyroll, Disneyplus, Crave or some other streaming service in Canada? Thank you! 2001:569:7D9E:700:15F6:5ACD:1BC8:EB22 (talk) 00:41, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

filming location in Baltimore[edit]

Here is a screenshot and I would like to know where this street and church can be found in Baltimore. https://s20.directupload.net/images/240623/y9e7ogpl.png Thank you! Chris06 (talk) 16:16, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You could try sending it to the YouTuber, GeoWizard. He seems to be an expert at this kind of thing. Pablothepenguin (talk) 18:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He certainly is an expert, but he's not going to do it just for some random person on the internet. Your best bet is to join a Facebook group about Baltimore and post your query there. The unusual looking building on the right looks like a church tower. I tried reverse image searching for the tower but it didn't come up. A google image search for churches in Baltimore didn't bring anything up either. --Viennese Waltz 09:17, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The commons category Churches in Baltimore is vast. I haven't found anything, but I haven't explored every nook and cranny of the category either. --Wrongfilter (talk) 10:40, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your answers! I had already searched the category and found nothing. The picture is from the film Step Up 2 and in both films all the locations are in Baltimore. Therefore I suspect that this street can also be found there. --Chris06 (talk) 15:51, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
New Lebanon Baptist Church on Milton Ave. at Jefferson St. See [6]. Looking west down Jefferson Street with high zoom from a distant airborne perspective. Some of the other landmarks you can see are at Johns Hopkins University, more than half a mile away. --Amble (talk) 18:34, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much, Amble! The cityscape in the background has changed since then. This church is not on commons I think. --Chris06 (talk) 06:37, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lion[edit]

why is the lion the king of the jungle? Pheffytom (talk) 20:26, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See archetype, but note that care has to be taken in order to distinguish between Plato's view vs Jung's interpretation. This will not be giving a direct explanation but illustrate Jung's description of the phenomenon. The king analogy is built by a collective schema. That of schema most often does not need or better, deserve an explanation as any individual will have and own his particular share of the explanation. That's according to his specticific position in the collective. --Askedonty (talk) 21:04, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See also Cultural depictions of lions for the characterization as "king of beasts". The lion hunts mainly on open woodlands and is not found in dense woodlands such as are called "jungles", so "king of the jungle" is a bit of a misnomer. (In Indian English, though, the term "jungle" may refer to any uncultivated tract of forest or scrub habitat.) Other animals have also been called "king of the jungle", such as the tiger,[7][8] the peafowl,[9] the Asian elephant[10] and the gorilla.[11]  --Lambiam 08:32, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note also the Lion of Judah, associated with the tribe and dynasty of King David, and subsequently influential in Christian cultures. -- Verbarson  talkedits 18:26, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 28[edit]

Time and the Big Bang[edit]

Moved to the Science section of the Reference desk.  --Lambiam 15:42, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Florida recount[edit]

HI. During the manual recount of ballots in Florida, in 2000, how did election officials record vote totals and communicate the results of the recount both to the elections office, the Secretary of State, and ultimately to the networks? Thank you. 2.32.203.63 (talk) 19:09, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have you tried 2000 United States presidential election recount in Florida? --136.54.106.120 (talk) 21:34, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just want to point out that given the dispute over ballots and lawsuits, the process was extensively detailed in the literature. If you can be more specific with your question, I may be able to answer it, although it is quite esoteric. Viriditas (talk) 18:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 29[edit]

Which US city is closest to the Equator?[edit]

I can't find an answer to the question above. When Googling I get answers only to questions I didn’t ask, such as "Which city in the 50 states is closest to the Equator?" (which excludes territories and dependencies, which I don't want), "Which state capital is closest?" (not my question), and "Which state is closest?" (cut it out with the states already) but not just plain "Which city is closest?".

I think the answer is Charlotte Amalie, but I'm not sure if I'm missing a territory or dependency. Thanks for any help. 2604:3D09:A17E:7300:5DEA:D376:3AAD:571 (talk) 23:31, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I think I'm not too surprised that you would get those Google results. I would intuitively interpret "US city" to mean "city in the fifty states plus the District". If you mean to broaden it beyond that you probably need to use different phrasing. --Trovatore (talk) 05:50, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hagåtña, the capital of Guam, is closer than Pago Pago, but can hardly be called a city. However, it is labelled as such ("the City of Hagåtña") by the government of Guam. Dededo is also closer and considerably more populous than both Hagåtña and Charlotte Amalie.  --Lambiam 00:00, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Surely it's one of the Hawaiian cities? HiLo48 (talk) 01:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That might depend on the definition of city. "The U.S. territory of Guam is comprised of 19 villages."[12] However, the Virgin Islands are farther south than the Hawaiian Islands, so Charlotte Amalie, U.S. Virgin Islands could be correct. Still, according to our article, it is recognized as a town by the U.S. Census Bureau. American Samoa and Palmyra Atoll are even farther south, but might not have any "cities" (Pago Pago has the largest population at 3,656). Also note that "The Greater Pago Pago Metropolitan Area comprises several villages along Pago Pago Harbor",[13] yet I haven't found any official source noting it as a "city". --136.54.106.120 (talk) 02:33, 30 June 2024 (UTC) . . . Edit:03:26, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I like how in American Samoa, Pago Pago correctly comprises several villages; whilst in Guam, Hagåtña incorrectly "comprises of villages". Folly Mox (talk) 11:38, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The U.S. Census Bureau might not have a rigorous definition of city. They do seem to have independent city and consolidated city, but mostly appear to employ the technical terms metropolitan and micropolitan statistical areas – which can contain a principal city.
I suspect the term city might be one of the things that varies by state, but one can only assume that at least for their unemancipated colonial toeholds minor outlying territories the federal government would have a single definition. Folly Mox (talk) 11:30, 30 June 2024 (UTC) [reply]
"I suspect the term city might be one of the things that varies by state" Yep. In my own state of North Carolina, a city is any municipality that chose to use that word when incorporating. In Massachussetts it is based on the form of government, with cities having a mayor-council or council-manager type of government. In Louisiana it is based on population, with a minimum of 5000 people needed. In North Dakota any incorporated community is a city. I could probably find many other definitions in the other states, but that should get the point across. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:29, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
PS: aside from some research stations and military installations the United States Minor Outlying Islands are uninhabited. I assume you are actually interested in the Territories of the United States.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:37, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Whoops, yes, thanks. Fixed. Folly Mox (talk) 14:16, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is the government of Guam official enough?[14] Reportedly,
"En la isla de Guam sólocabría hablar de ciudad en un caso: el deAgaña, que obtuvo tal título en 1686, trashaber ostentado el de villa con anterioridad."[15], p.433 — "On the island of Guam it is only possible to speak of a city in one case: that of Agaña, which obtained such title in 1686, after having previously held the title of town."
Being a Spanish possession at the time, the title would have been bestowed by a decree of the Spanish crown. In Europe, the traditional view is: once a city, forever a city.  --Lambiam 13:06, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not always, see Rochester Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:32, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Traditions are not invariably upheld. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 151.227.226.178 (talk) 19:12, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My first job was in Cardiff which achieved city status in 1905, so I have a soft spot for Llandaff, the "city within a city"; it was never incorporated, but has its own cathedral. See also St Davids. MinorProphet (talk) 17:14, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I became intrigued by how the USA classifies cities when I discovered Soldier, Kansas, population 102. HiLo48 (talk) 05:57, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's state-by-state. In California, as far as I understand, there is no official distinction between "city" and "town"; incorporated municipalities may refer to themselves by either name. There is a distinction between a charter city and a general law city, which may bear some vague analogy to the notion of "city status" that MinorProphet references, but I think it's not a very close one. --Trovatore (talk) 06:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(While our article does not describe it as a "city", you might also be interested in Monowi, Nebraska.) --Trovatore (talk) 06:43, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 30[edit]

Plant milk ratings[edit]

What is the highest rated type of plant milk for use as a creamer in coffee, in terms of taste tests? I'm not talking about brands, but rather the type of plant milk, such as soy, almond, oat, pea, etc. I've been wondering about this for a while, but I've never been able to find an answer. The other strange thing is that the answer appears to change over time, as if taste is a function of trends and market preference, maybe even culture? But surely, someone can point to a specific type of plant milk and say, "our overall taste tests show that people prefer this type in coffee over others". But what if this kind of result is the function of specific populations, where taste is determined by other factors? On the other hand, food science is fairly mature at this point, so it should be quite easy to say "x type of plant milk is preferred by most people in coffee", but not just as a function of sales (because people will often buy what is cheaper, not simply what tastes the best). Is this doable? Can one say which is both preferred and tastes the best? Viriditas (talk) 21:54, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Advances in food science will hardly be of help. One can imagine a study in which a panel of tasters, say regular cappuccino users, are asked to rank various plant milks. But designing such a study is not easy. There are many confounding issues, including personal preferences, cultural preferences, and significant differences in taste (e.g. sweetness) between brands for the same type of milk substitute. I have a hard time imagining a research council funding an independent study on ranking the suitability of milk substitutes for use as a creamer in coffee. If any such studies have been conducted, they were most likely of the type informally conducted by newspapers or magazines.  --Lambiam 07:22, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some plant milks are not suitable for all consumers for medical reasons. Giving almond milk to someone with a nut allergy would not be clever! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:44, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My own original research[original research] involving witnessing non-vegan friends opting for plantmilk upgrades at coffee shops would indicate that oatmilk is the preferred creamer for this purpose. I acknowledge the sample may not be representative and few coffee shops stock more than three or four species of non-dairy creamers. Folly Mox (talk) 10:51, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which plant-based ‘milk’ is best? (BBC). Alansplodge (talk) 16:59, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's very helpful. Thank you everyone. Viriditas (talk) 20:17, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved
Superfluous frippery

Wikipedia tells me milk comes from mammals. HiLo48 (talk) 00:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Milk does, but plant milk does not. I'm sure you're aware that this is far from the only case in the English language where modifying a term does not make the referent an instance of the unmodified term. --Trovatore (talk) 01:31, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can't its supporters come up with an original name? HiLo48 (talk) 01:34, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Edible slurry. DuncanHill (talk) 01:40, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Samuel Johnson called it "milk" in 1755, so this is not exactly a novelty, as much as it may irritate the National Milk Producers sic for the missing apostrophe Federation and similar industry mouthpieces. --Trovatore (talk) 01:44, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Ignorance, madam, pure ignorance" DuncanHill (talk) 01:46, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nonsense. --Trovatore (talk) 01:50, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying to picture a milking machine attached to a plant. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:02, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's an image the dairy industry put in your head.
Look, I like milk and cheese. I have no particular animus against dairy farmers. But their behavior as an industry on this particular issue has been utterly loathsome and reprehensible. You shouldn't be doing their work for them. --Trovatore (talk) 16:35, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Which industry controls your head Trovatore? Or are you a special case, better than the rest of us? DuncanHill (talk) 16:51, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bit of an overreact there? Everything ok? Folly Mox (talk) 11:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not an over-reaction. DuncanHill (talk) 11:42, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, that is the obvious first thought when you come across the term "plant milk" ( or any of the various types thereof). No matter how long the terms have been used, they are inherently silly. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:55, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Although EO has some info on "milk",[16] I'm not seeing anything about oats. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots19:09, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Meh, doesn't seem silly to me, calling a culinary substitute the same term as the product it substitutes. *Plant mammary gland secretions or *Teat-expressed baby plant nutrient colloid would be significantly sillier. Folly Mox (talk) 11:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So you're ok with calling chicory coffee, or margarine butter, or potato bread wheaten bread? DuncanHill (talk) 11:42, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's plenty of precedent for naming things after other things that are similar in appearance or purpose, whether it be chicory coffee, herbal tea, laverbread, milk of magnesia, filter cake... AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 12:06, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
*Apostrophe is not required. It could simply be a federation of producers; the producers don't necessarily possess the federation. 136.54.106.120 (talk) 02:16, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In that case the plural would not be needed; it would be the "National Milk Producer Federation". I know our British friends sometimes use plural noun adjuncts, but it sounds bad on this side of the Pond. --Trovatore (talk) 05:22, 2 July 2024 (UTC) [reply]
Oh, and by the way the English genitive does not necessarily imply possession. That's the clamorous error, completely indefensible and I hope you won't try, made by the US Bureau of Geographic Names, when they imposed ridiculous forms like *Pikes Peak, luckily ignored by sensible people. --Trovatore (talk) 05:26, 2 July 2024 (UTC) [reply]
Hmmm... I live in Kings Langley which has survived without any apostrophe since the 14th century when it was Kyngeslangley. Alansplodge (talk) 15:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The apostrophe was not introduced into English until the 16th century. Kings Langley is therefore too old to have used it. -- Verbarson  talkedits 17:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 2[edit]

Kenner Police Academy toys possible reissue[edit]

Are there future plans to reissue Kenner Police Academy toys, if its possible? 172.13.193.84 (talk) 15:53, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is Kenner Products even still in business? And are there plans to produce another Police Academy movie? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots15:58, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid not. But, there's still a chance that these toys could be reissued from a different toy company, such as Hasbro, even if its possible. 172.13.193.84 (talk) 16:01, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article says they were acquired by Hasbro. You could try contacting Hasbro and see if they have any such plans. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots16:08, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 3[edit]

I'm trying to find historical population levels for this city. Searching has turned up sources like this, which is great, but only goes back ~20 years. The city was formed in 1973 from the amalgamation of nearby towns/villages; I'd like to know what the population was then (or thereabouts) and a decade later, say 1980-1985 or so. In an ideal situation, I'd like to see the historical population trend, but I'll take what I can get. :-) Matt Deres (talk) 13:27, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looking back at past Canadian censuses, I find the following figures 101,429 for 1996; 92,772 for 1991; 79,920 for 1986; 76,300 for 1981; 64,794 for 1976 (needed to go through the PDF version of a poorly printed document for that one). All of these can be found online if you look for Canadian census and the year. More recent figures are in a table in the French version of the article, which I'm sure you have looked at already Xuxl (talk) 15:11, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you kindly. Matt Deres (talk) 20:20, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cambridge was formed by the merger of the city of Galt with two significantly smaller places. Historical populations for Galt may be the appropriate thing to use, depending on your purpose. --142.112.148.225 (talk) 21:18, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 4[edit]

Publish type label on eBay?[edit]

I want to sell an appliance at eBay. Are there any concerns - privacy or otherwise - against posting a picture of the type label? ◅ Sebastian Helm 🗨 13:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can't imagine any reason why you shouldn't do that, unless it reveals any personal information? You're simply supplying information about the appliance. Shantavira|feed me 18:44, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]


July 6[edit]

Winston Churchill cigars[edit]

Can you tell me which was the actual specific cigar that was named in tribute to Winston Churchill? I got a good friend's birthday coming up. Googling turns up with loads of spam. Iloveparrots (talk) 05:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That would be Romeo y Julieta: The flagship vitola of the brand is named in his honour, a long 7" by 47 ring gauge cigar known as the Churchill. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 06:19, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What happened?[edit]

If you're driving along Santa Teresa Boulevard, you'll see this along the way. It seems to be a memorial in memory of Nicole Sosa, who, if I'm not mistaken, died in a car crash. Who was she, and is there any more information on what happened? TWOrantulaTM (enter the web) 23:18, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not finding anything in Newspapers.com. If you can find a nearby library, it's possible someone there will know. But these kinds of things will occasionally turn up for people who are otherwise not well known. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots01:23, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like there is something about her fatal accident at The Mercury Sun, if anyone has an online subscription. John M Baker (talk) 05:31, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Headline: "Woman killed when her SUV crashes into building in San Jose". Other than "a woman", the article does not provide further information about the victim.  --Lambiam 07:32, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My link says she was 30 and the driver and that the accident was Nov. 18, 2022. John M Baker (talk) 13:33, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There was a gofundme fundraiser for her son [17] and this instagram page[18] has pictures of her. Modocc (talk) 18:10, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have an article about this kind of thing, Roadside memorial. Cullen328 (talk) 18:26, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 8[edit]