Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/80 members of the parliament who voted against Vichy France

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus to delete the article. Mailer Diablo 08:22, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unencyclopaedic listcruft. WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of information. --Rory096 05:48, 26 March 2006 (UTC) Rory096 05:48, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as per nom --LBMixPro^{<Speak|on|it!>} 05:50, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete While I see that the issue at hand was important, I don't see how knowing which individuals did not vote for it is. Additionally, this could set a dangerous precedent for other, similar lists. --InShaneee 05:54, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Knowing them is important, because after the war, "the opposition of these 80 people received an increased recognition" [1]. Those who didn't oppose basically killed their political career afterwards and those who opposed formed of the post-war politics. Tony Bruguier 16:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But do we really need articles for every issue that was a turnkey for every politician? --InShaneee 18:18, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per above. Gflores ^Talk 06:11, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as listcruft --TBC^{??? ??? ???} 07:13, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Wikipedia is not the parliamentary record. Sandstein 07:18, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, listcruft. JIP | Talk 08:14, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete listcruft. --Khoikhoi 09:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Per nom. Kilo-Lima|^(talk) 12:00, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Very Strong Keep. The 80 members of the French parliament who voted against the instauration of the Vichy regime have been celebrated as heros in France since WWII. Their action was one of the first open signs of resistance to the German occupiers, coming very shortly after Degaulle's Appel of June 18. Like the resistance fighters, their refusal to rubber stamp Vichy allowed France to save face after the war. I object to this nom that refuses to examine the issues involved and appeal to voters to reconsider. -- JJay 14:35, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per JJay. Mackan 14:45, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. This is not a 'normal' vote, those voting against faced arrest for voting against the establishment of a puppet regime. That doesn't happen every day. Voting to delete this is almost as odd as removing a list of the names of signatories to the US declaration of independence. Average Earthman 15:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Keep. While I agree that "Wikipedia is not the parliamentary record", this is not a regular vote. This law terminated a 70-year old constitution and started a new form of government. As per Avergae Earthman, Wikipedia keeps the list of those who signed the Declaration of Independence. Regarding Rory's WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of information, students are this in high school in France (see also this) and removing the article would be POV against non-English speaking part of the World's history. I agree there is a threshold to decide, but if wikipedia keeps this one (sorry for the fans), then I think we should have the list. Tony Bruguier 16:20, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, as long as the precedent this sets is clear: this article is being kept because it is a vote of historical significance. Not because we want to keep general parliamentary records. --Deville (Talk) 16:32, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. While Wikipedia cannot list the outcomes of routine legislative decisions, a vote that actually changed the form of government for this country cannot be regarded as routine. Due to its historic importance (the French Resistance, postwar politics, etc.) this is actually one of Wikipedia's more important lists. This isn't a paper encyclopedia: let's keep a few electrons busy for serious students of history. Durova 16:37, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. As others have noted, this was a rather important vote, subjugating France to Germany's will. A2Kafir 17:22, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep important part of European history. Eivind^t@c 18:22, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep notable. meets article criteria. Newyorktimescrossword 20:28, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep per all above Jcuk 22:47, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep as per Deville i.a. Bridesmill 22:55, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong keep as above. A very useful list for those who want to find out more about les 80, who are indeed considered French heroes. ProhibitOnions 23:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep definitely not listcruft. --Jay(Reply) 23:24, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. While we shouldn't have lists of who voted for and against every motion in every parliament, this event is significant enough to warrant retention. Capitalistroadster 00:05, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: But it could probably be renamed something that might be easier to search against. Peter Grey 06:16, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep. The event is notable, as is the signing of the U.S. Declaration of Independence; and if this listing is cruft, so is that article's listing of signers. I.e., keep as per Tony Bruguier. SigPig 08:07, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. As above, this is not unlike a list of the signers of the declaration of independence. The act of voting against was very important and had a strong impact, Wikipedia should definitely maintain this list as thoroughly notable and encyclopedic. If we delete this, it will establish a precednt under which I would almost feel obligated to nominate every list in Wikipedia for deletion. Cool3 20:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Sufficiently notable, as of the seminal events of French history. Works much better as a list than it would if incorporated into an article. -Colin Kimbrell 22:11, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, per nom. incog 23:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Useful, actually. (I Live in France, and couldn't find the information anywhere else!)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.