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Requested move 22 June 2024

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus there is no primary topic for "Irish hunger strike". The events in 1920 and 1923 in particular have a long-term significance similar to that of the events in 1981. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 09:27, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Irish hunger strikeIrish hunger strike (disambiguation) – "1981 Irish hunger strike" is a clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC on the basis of page views, so WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT applies. "Irish hunger strike" should redirect to "1981 Irish hunger strike", and the disambiguation page should be at "Irish hunger strike (disambiguation)" Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 16:14, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Page views analysis here. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 16:15, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose. WP:RECENTISM, hunger strikes from 1920 and 1923 (more then a hundred years ago) does not gain the same internet coverage as the most recent one. The Banner talk 16:25, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if there's a danger of confusing enduring notability with a kind of centenial recentism. I note that the majority of articles on the RTE website concerning the 1920 and 1923 hunger strikes were written in the context of their recent centenaries. Writing in the Irish Times in 2023, Frank McNally called the 1923 hunger strike, "the forgotten mass hunger strike of 1923", and "among the least well remembered of its kind". Writing about the 1920 hunger strikes, The Irish Examiner says: "The forgotten story of Cork's hunger strikers is to be told for the first time." That doesn't speak of enduring notability.
The pages "1920 Cork hunger strike" and "1923 Irish hunger strikes" were both created in 2021 and have 37 and 42 incoming links respectively, while "1981 Irish hunger strike" was created in 2004 and has 1,162. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 08:56, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A quote from that article: "Free State authorities, knowing well the power of hunger strikes in republican history, kept publicity for the Anti-Treaty protest to a minimum." That raises curiosity in my mind to know more about the Irish hunger strikes that happened before 1920. I hope someone researches this and writes the article.
There's a tendency for inconvenient history to be forgotten. Great effort is made to keep some history, such as the Holocaust, in the public's memory, with the goal of ensuring that type of thing doesn't happen again.
On the other hand, American right-wing Nazi sympathizers of the 1930s and 1940s were largely forgotten until recently, when prompted by actions of the modern American right, reporters such as Rachel Maddow have done podcasts and written books to educate younger Americans about this nearly-forgotten history. Wikipedia can and should perform a great public service here, in fulfilling the educational goals of an encyclopedia. – wbm1058 (talk) 12:56, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree very much with that. But the purpose of a disambiguation page is to help the reader find the information they're looking for. On the basis of page views, eleven out of every twelve readers are actually looking for "1981 Irish hunger strike". If that balance were to shift significantly, so would my opinion on this question. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 13:12, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And again you come with an argument to the tune of "old is less notable". The Banner talk 14:10, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We can also help readers find things that they didn't even know they were looking for. ;) wbm1058 (talk) 14:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I agree. But "Did you know ..." and "From today's featured article" are ideal for that sort of thing, and a hatnote at "1981 Irish hunger strike" would bring traffic to the disambiguation page. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 15:09, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I just found the Irish hunger strikes content that I was looking for. It's in the main, broad-concept hunger strike article. That article focuses on only a few countries, with one prominent country of interest being Ireland. The main reason we don't have a specific article for Ireland is that, per WP:Summary style, there simply isn't so much content on the topic to require splitting out Ireland to a separate article, yet.
Fasting was used as a method of protesting injustice in pre-Christian Ireland, where it was known as Troscadh or Cealachan. Detailed in the contemporary civic codes, it had specific rules by which it could be used, and the fast was often carried out on the doorstep of the home of the offender. Scholars speculate that this was due to the high importance the culture placed on hospitality. Allowing a person to die at one's doorstep, for a wrong of which one was accused, was considered a great dishonor. Others say that the practice was to fast for one whole night, as there is no evidence of people fasting to death in pre-Christian Ireland. The fasts were primarily undertaken to recover debts or get justice for a perceived wrong. Legends of Saint Patrick, the patron saint of Ireland, have used the hunger strike as well.
I just created the Irish hunger strikes redirect. If that had been there before I created it, I would have found this content sooner. – wbm1058 (talk) 19:11, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, that is the Brehon law. In those times, nothing was more embarrassing than a fasting person on your doorstep because you had wronged him. The Banner talk 20:03, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move discussion 2

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See Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2024 July#Irish hunger strike. This notice is here because the tiny notice on top of the page is insufficient to attract attention. The Banner talk 17:00, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]