Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alefosio Laki

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Samoa at the 2016 Summer Paralympics. (non-admin closure) Red Phoenix ^talk 21:43, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alefosio Laki[edit]

Alefosio Laki (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Covered in Samoa at the 2016 Summer Paralympics, only known for that one event, unless he participates in another Paralympics is unlikely to generate additional news coverage. Kees08 (Talk) 00:01, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 00:04, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 00:04, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Oceania-related deletion discussions. Hhkohh (talk) 00:04, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, Participating at the Paralympics is an automatic keep. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 00:44, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Surprisingly to me, not true. They have to win a medal, per WP:NSPORTS Kees08 (Talk) 03:31, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, Notability is not temporary, if he was significant enough to have his own page. Then he still deserves it even if it does not generate future press. Twinky995 (talk) 02:38, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The argument is that the subject was never notable enough for a standalone wiki article, and that unless something else was done to prove notability, the article could be removed. I should have phrased it differently, but here we are. Kees08 (Talk) 03:33, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep WP:NOTTEMPORARY. \\\Septrillion:- ~~‭~~10^Eleventeen 03:04, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment For reference, I was basing this nomination from the result of Houssein Omar Hassan. I wrote that up to GA class, but it was rejected and then AfD'ed, resulting in a merge. Identical situation to this one, so something else to look at for consideration. Kees08 (Talk) 03:25, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - non-notable.--Ortizesp (talk) 02:53, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Samoa at the 2016 Summer Paralympics Clearly does not meet WP:NSPORT and the coverage seems insufficient to meet WP:GNG as it is routine sports reporting. Doesn't meet any criteria for a standalone article and has no significant information not already present at the redirect target I gave. I believe the same can be said for the article on Maggie Aiono. A redirect seems like the best choice for both of these articles, especially when there have been no policy based reasons given for keeping the article under discussion. Papaursa (talk) 17:08, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as a qualifier for a global championship at the highest possible level in his category with numerous independent sources directly about the subject like [1]. Laki is only about 21 and his career is far from over. --Habst (talk) 19:50, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think some local coverage is sufficient for GNG and I don't see how you claim WP:NSPORTS is met when the guidelines for paralympians is quite clear. Projecting future success falls under WP:CRYSTALBALL. Papaursa (talk) 20:28, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Papaursa, NSPORTS is unnecessary for notability, and I think the guidelines are particularly lacking for paralympians. The subject certainly meets GNG as proven by the multiple independent reliable sources such as [2], [3], and the above. Local coverage is perfectly fine for GNG and is not at all discouraged in WP:N -- in fact, when a proposal once stated the contrary it was rejected. The last sentence was in response to the nominator's comments, "unless he participates in another Paralympics is unlikely to generate additional news coverage". --Habst (talk) 01:34, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Here's my concern. Since it's been determined by WP consensus that not all paralympians are notable, then he either needs to medal to meet WP:NSPORTS or have coverage beyond what a typical paralympian would get. At least that's my interpretation. If I'm wrong I hope someone, especially an admin, will correct me. All of them will get coverage from local sources (and possibly more) saying that they're going to the event, but that's not coverage beyond what they all get. Usually coverage that is typical for a position (like coverage of local politicians) isn't considered sufficient to show notability. Laki's coverage doesn't seem to be more than every other paralympian gets. Papaursa (talk) 02:22, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that consistency is a good thing, but I think the most accurate way to establish notability is on a case-by-case basis rather than only by making blanket statements about the subject's profession or sport. Besides, recently similar articles about Paralympians like Maggie Aiono have been conclusively kept when challenged, which I think indicates that the NSPORTS guidelines pertaining to paralympians should be changed -- as it stands, the Paralympic notability guidelines are only bundled in with the senior Olympic guidelines in one bullet point, while I think they should have their own article section to better handle the differences between the two competitions. Until they are changed, WP:GNG overrides NSPORTS. --Habst (talk) 02:56, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Don't think either of us will really convince the other and that's fine. Two final points to clarify: I'm not asking for his article to be deleted just redirected since his individual article contains nothing not in the redirect target and the Maggie Aiono article was not closed by an admin and was based on editors incorrectly claiming all Paralympians are notable. This latter was likely an invalid close since non-admins are only supposed to claim non-contentious AfDs and likely shouldn't be used as a precedent. Papaursa (talk) 17:59, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• redirect None of the keep arguments seem very convincing or based on policy so I don't see any reason to keep this individual article. However, I think a redirect is reasonable.Sandals1 (talk) 14:34, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Samoa at the 2016 Summer Paralympics per Papaursa. Ifnord (talk) 13:14, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Samoa at the 2016 Summer Paralympics per Papaursa and Ifnord. WP:NOLY clearly says that Athletes from any sport are presumed notable if they... have won a medal at the Paralympic Games, and he did not win a medal, so not notable. Also fails GNG. --1l2l3k (talk) 16:37, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.