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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) Actualcpscm scrutinize, talk 11:28, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gomer Pyle[edit]

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Gomer Pyle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Many sources in the article are primary, a quick Google search does not give any sources that prove individual notability. If the character is not notable, I suggest a redirect and/or merge to List of The Andy Griffith Show characters Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C.. Spinixster (chat!) 07:21, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed, Rosguill talk 15:44, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I concur with the analysis of both Jc37 and Clarityfiend. I see no real question about notability, but I see it reasonable to consider navigation. The nomination suggests a merge/redirect to an Andy Griffith characters list, which while not without a reasonable basis, seems very unfortunate when considering the character played an important (23 episodes) but relatively minor role on that show and later had a much more prominent role on the highly successful show titled with the characters name. The list of Griffith show characters redirect is therefore IMO a total non-starter. To redirect/merge to the Gomer Pyle show is not unreasonable, although it would seem to minimize the characters impact beyond the TV shows. While I could support a redirect to the Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C., I think that the typical Wikipedia treatment of super-characters, as well as prominent businessmen, is to have articles both on the individual and their organization(s). Therefore I'm going with Keep. Jacona (talk) 11:11, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I forgot to do this, but I changed the original redirect target of the nom from list of The Andy Griffith Show characters to Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C.. I suggest all future voters take a look at what I've said above before voting. There may be another option to disambiguate the page to either refer to the character or the series. Spinixster (chat!) 11:29, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The subject meets WP:GNG with sources in the article including America on the Rerun and "When I use a word ... Medical slang: gomers and gomerettes". Further solid sources have been presented here. There are literally 80 years of sources to comb through, and a quick before shows that many of them provide sigcov as well. Here's a couple for good measure [3], [4]
While in some cases, even the most notable character could be merged to the benefit of readers, that clearly would not benefit readers here. Not only is this a character in two notable shows, but the character is arguably more notable than either show they appeared on for the breadth and depth of cultural impact. —siroχo 03:31, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Breakdown of the sources below:
  • The first source has a chapter focusing on Gomer, Goober, and Howard that can be used. I don't know how useful it really is because it seems to mostly be a summary of the character's plotlines, which usually doesn't prove notability. The rest of the mentions seem to be passing.
  • The second source doesn't seem to mention the Andy Griffith show, let alone Gomer.
The America on the Rerun book seems to mention Gomer in passing; there is a dedicated chapter on the Andy Griffith Show, but it's mostly quotes from interviews and focuses more on the actor. Spinixster (chat!) 04:28, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please, say that again, and then share with the room that you understand what the concepts of coverage and notability mean. It's tempting to be humorous about this, but I read your comments and you seem serious. - jc37 05:30, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The notability of fictional elements is a hard subject, especially when you try to decide what is notable and what is not. WP:FICT does exist, but it doesn't go in depth enough. I myself have experience writing these pages, and I find that:
  • Sources on plotlines and trivia don't always prove the notability of fictional elements. Unless there are sources talking about a certain plot point from a real-world perspective, and that's on a case-by-case basis, I find it to be WP:CRUFT, even if there's a lot of coverage about it.
  • The character has to be notable in multiple aspects. In this case, "Gomer" has become a slang for idiot, and its use is common within popular culture, but that's just one thing, so unless there's more, it fails WP:SUSTAINED.
Of course, this is just a flexible idea, and it may change in the future. Spinixster (chat!) 07:12, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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