Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Guam at the 2015 World Championships in Athletics

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Except two WP:IDONTLIKEIT !votes to delete, the rest agrees that the articles should exist in some form or another. Whether as stand-alone or as redirects (with or without merge) is not clear here but can always be discussed on the talk pages. So Why 15:07, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Guam at the 2015 World Championships in Athletics[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Does not match any SNG; might be fine with GNG (per the sources in Regine Tugade). Would like to have consensus to keep the article before I work on expanding it. Kees08 (Talk) 01:35, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 12:23, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 12:23, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Consensus is that these types of articles are notable for large, multi-event competitions like this. Every other country at the World Championships has an article. I fail to see why this one in particular is non-notable. Smartyllama (talk) 19:04, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe I should have multiple-nom'ed. I would think at least all of the articles with only one participant should be deleted, since that information can just be in the participants article. I did not single this one out for any reason other than I am working on Guam at the Olympics, and individual Guamanians, so it was brought to my attention. Kees08 (Talk) 19:30, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that info should be in the participant's article. Many of these athletes compete in dozens of international championships and flooding their article with details of every one, while definitely notable, would likely be frowned upon. That's why we need these articles -- to elaborate on individual championships in a way that can't be done in athlete articles. Habst (talk)

Likely should have been a multiple-nom of all these, but delete. The NSPORTS guidelines only covers these country articles for the Olympics and Paralympics; the Commonwealth Games are likely okay too, but even those haven't been enshrined into policy. Going into individual WC's and creating country by country articles is a bit too far into non-notability for my taste, the event-by-event articles are enough. No, we're not arguing strictly policy terms here, but, delete as non-notable. Courcelles (talk) 19:10, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There's no doubt that these athletes are slow as molasses, but I think just seeing that in NTRACK is really looking past the point here. Looking at the articles for Regine Tugade and Derek Mandell, these people are accomplished athletes in their country and there is likely significant notable coverage that could be included in these articles to improve them. Wikipedia has loads of articles on "terrible" e.g. football players in an international sense but we don't delete them because the stats simply aren't as damning in sports where you're not racing against a clock every time. Habst (talk) 02:52, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge I'm advocating a model where edition-level national team articles are only relevant for major teams/teams with substantial coverage. For those that don't, like Guam, it makes sense to redirect the by-year articles to an all-edition national page, which I have started at Guam at the World Championships in Athletics. As for the statement about looking to expand the 2015 article, it's already pretty much complete, such is the limited participation of Guam in global level sport. SFB 22:29, 7 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- @Sillyfolkboy: Should I expand this AfD to include all Guamanian articles at the World Championships then? Merge seems like a good result to me. As for expanding it, I could, since it is only a table right now (just add prose essentially), I just want to do it in the right spot and not have my work deleted. Kees08 (Talk) 19:18, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yep, sounds like a good idea. I'm pretty sure the main nation article meets notability criteria. SFB 22:25, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- @Sillyfolkboy: I really appreciate your fantastic contributions to athletics on Wikipedia, but I wholly disagree with your comment that that the 2015 article is mostly complete. I know nothing about Guam athletics but added a few sentences to it just now to show that there are multiple independent and notable sources covering Guam's performance specifically in the 2015 Championships. Based on the articles I've read I think it would be possible to expand on the impact of her performance a lot more if anyone else cares to try. I think it's very important to understand the greater cultural and national identity significance of athletics performances in smaller countries, which is certainly notable even with (very) slow times. Habst (talk) 03:37, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting so all the newly added articles will be here for a full seven days.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Courcelles (talk) 19:31, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - (nominator comment) Merge to Guam at the World Championships in Athletics Kees08 (Talk) 19:35, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete since the merge has already happened. I don't think we need to redirect - having hundreds of redirects in the name space for each country and year will only clutter up the search bar and unnecessarily complicate navigation. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 17:43, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- The merge has not already happened. Smartyllama (talk) 18:52, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  - This is what I was referring to - Guam at the World Championships in Athletics#2015 seems to have all the meat there now, except for the date and location, but none of the years have that info. The summary medal count is there also. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 19:14, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    - Guam at the World Championships in Athletics#2015 only has one table per year with no prose at all. Guam's individual performances at World Championships seem to almost always be notable from what I can tell, and the national coverage is by event rather than holistic in nature. This lends itself to articles per event and year rather than just one for all years of an event, which I can find no articles covering. For an example of the type of content that could be created in these national articles, even when there is only one person, I just added some sentences to Guam at the 2015 World Championships in Athletics. Habst (talk) 03:47, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - There are so many of these useless articles out there. If there is hardly any content they should all be deleted. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:39, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think the solution is to create the content rather than delete the articles. Habst (talk) 03:42, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Guam at the World Championships in Athletics. All the content is there already, so there's no reason to have this as a standalone article and nothing left for a merge to actually do. Reyk _YO! 12:52, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I voted against doing a redirect because if you think about it, taking it to an extreme, let’s say there’s a redirect for every year’s article – those are going to show up alphabetically in the search bar first, and the user is going to have to scroll down to find the main article, not knowing they can just click on any one to be redirected. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 14:37, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Search results do not appear alphabetically in the search bar, they appear by a mixture of relevance to search term and popularity of article. Also, years in which Guam did not compete would not exist as articles or redirects so there would only be a handful of articles showing, all very improvable. Even if that were true, just because a country's showing at the 1983 Worlds might not be notable doesn't mean that their showing at other years would be notable. I think that the four articles at the top are notable and could be expanded. The prose in the 2015 article is already more thorough than that of the 2015 U.S. article for example. Habst (talk) 04:08, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 16:01, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect as a possible search term. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 18:14, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I strongly believe that we should strive to avoid coverage from weak sources, and at first glance I can see why we might think these articles are already "complete" and there must not be any notable independent coverage. But from just a little bit of research I saw that this is really not at all true. Citing the Guam at the 2015 World Championships in Athletics article alone, there are at least four independent sources covering Guam's performance at 2015 Worlds in a non-routine way despite there being only one athlete -- and that's not even including the articles that aren't focused specifically on Guam. As with many other stubs on Wikipedia, the solution is not to delete or merge them but to improve the articles by inserting relevant and notable coverage in prose form. Having the articles separated by year is the best way to do that, as it makes it easy to just write paragraphs and logically relates more to the independent national coverage, which is almost always by year anyways (i.e., potential references are more often written about Guam's performance at a specific year, not Guam's performance holistically in all World Championships). Habst (talk) 03:58, 17 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.