Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Institute for Science and Human Values

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Paul Kurtz. The consensus seems to be merge and redirect. I suggest one paragraph would be about right, as most of the article duplicates other material about Kurtz, & some of the rest is advertising for forthcoming events. DGG ( talk ) 20:05, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Institute for Science and Human Values[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Paul Kurtz founded several organizations throughout his lifetime, such as CSICOP and Center for Inquiry. These organizations meet the requirement for WP:N. In 2009, he left CFI and founded a new organization, Institute for Science and Human Values. This organization however I do not feel meets the requirement for WP:N. Searching for the organization's name brings up references to it in the media, but only short references in articles about Paul Kurtz himself. I can't find significant coverage of the organization itself. The proper place for information about this organization is as a subheading on the Paul Kurtz page. This organization may or may not become noteworthy in the future, but Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Harizotoh9 (talk) 21:17, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete While I think this sounds like an interesting organization, I do not see sufficient coverage to support a dedicated page at this time. The current sources are most (maybe all) primary sources and without reliable secondary sources it does not meet the WP:GNG. Once the organization is more established and is covered more thoroughly in mainstream media then perhaps it will merit an encyclopedia entry. I agree that ISHV should be mentioned in a section on the Paul Kurtz page but caution that after his death there have been some editors who have tried to add excessive detail about ISHV on his page. I personally think this page was an attempt to establish the legitimacy of those edits. This is a noble project and one that Kurtz worked on over the last few years of his life but it is not, by far, the biggest impact that he has made on society and it is important that his page represent that in a balanced way. Allecher (talk) 13:38, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:51, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Who you are, please? It is odd to be dealing with an anonymous writer or is there a place on wiki to find out the names of those who would be editor? I object to this call for deletion. The work of the Institute is worldwide. This year alone the leaders have made presentations; in the Philippines, speaking at the first Atheists and Agnostics Convention in South East Asia; participated in the UNESCO conference in Paris, France at 21st Century Toward A New Humanism; taught at Moscow State University in Russia this summer on the intersection of humanism and feminism, with another presentation scheduled for December on the high seas. I do not read anywhere that an organization must be covered by the mainstream media. An article was published in Russian for the Russian Humanist Journal written by Toni Van Pelt this fall. Nathan Bupp has just released a new book and Stu Jordan book is in the final stages prior to publication. Norm Allen is due to release his next book on Black Secularists. The public policy director is a registered Congressional lobbyist for the Institute. These are some of the things the ISHV has accomplished this year. Tonivanpelt (talk) 23:47, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tonvanpelt, you should read Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies). I should have linked this in the opening post, but neglected to. The main criteria is notability, which are determined by third party news sources. I do not feel that ISHV has met the requirement, as most news sources that discuss it, discuss it briefly in larger articles about Paul Kurtz. When ISHV achieves such notability, then it can have an article on Wikipedia. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:16, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Harizotoh9 if notability is of main importance than Council for Secular Humanism page should also be deleted as there are no notability sources at all. I would like to know who you all are to verify if you have a conflict of interest. Please respond as to your identity. I used my complete name in the interests of transparency and honesty right from the start. Who are you and who is Allecher. What I have read from Allecher has been opinion. As to the biggest impact of Paul Kurtz, there are many world wide in scope, including the founding of Prometheus Books. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonivanpelt (talk • contribs) 03:13, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My and other Wikipedian editor's identities are not relevant to this discussion. Wikipedia editors are encouraged to assume good faith. This Deletion discussion will move forward regardless, and should be debated on its own merit. Pointing out the notability issues of other pages is also not relevant (though in that case I'm not against merging it with the main CFI article). --Harizotoh9 (talk) 11:42, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As to notatbility note press articles Buffalo News 7/10/201 "Kurtz Offers Venture to Explore Morality, Values in..", USA Today 9/15/2011 "Atheists Address Sexism Issues", ABC.online, Feb. 1, 2011 "God is Dead, NOw What?; UNPA 7/25/2010, "“Neo-Humanist” statement calls for a global parliament", USA today 2/23/2010 "Blacks say atheists were unseen civil rights heroes" versions of this article appeared in media across the US including the Christine Century. Also listed under Google Scholar is the ISHV public policy paper written by Ruth Mitchell and Peggy Brown, board member, " Every Child a Wanted Child: A Humanist Manifesto". If these cites must appear on the ISHV wiki page, we will rewritten to include them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tonivanpelt (talk • contribs) 15:10, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are on the right track with those sources, Tonivanpelt. Before they can be added to the page they need to meet the qualification for a reliable source (which you can read in WP:RS) and they need to make more than a passing mention of the subject. Some of the ones you listed might qualify but the first one I checked - "Atheists address sexism issues" - appears to be an opinion piece with little editorial oversight and only mentions ISHV as the employer of someone named TONI VAN PELT. Not only is that a passing mention but it leads me to believe that your wikipedia username implies that you are the same Ms. Van Pelt, and you may be too involved in this project to approach it without what Wikipedia defines as a conflict of Interest. See WP:COI.
If you look at the edit history of Harizotoh9 or my own you will see that we have edited a number of pages in a wide variety of disciplines. I do not mean to imply in any way that your contributions are unwelcome, but merely that we are more familiar with navigating the complex rules of Wikipedia. We would love to have your help improving many different articles even if this ISHV page is not determined to be notable. Allecher (talk) 23:17, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In addition to the cites appearing on the ISHV wiki page, the information in that page not sources to a third party source, such as the information sourced to instituteforscienceandhumanvalues.net, should be removed from the page. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 07:52, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I added some references (further reading) to the article. The institute started out with some press coverage in July 2010. However, the organization did not receive much press coverage after that. As the AfD nominator notes, the press coverage only was in the context of Kurtz attending meetings/speaking engagements and being identified as founder of the Institute for Science and Human Values. The many Kurtz Oct 2012 Obituaries did not go into any detail on the Institute. The topic does not meet WP:GNG. Also, given the past press coverage reliance on Kurtz, it seems likely that the Institute won't receive much press coverage in the future due to Kurtz's passing. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 07:50, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge / Delete - Based on the arguments presented about notability, this probably doesn't deserve its own wikipedia article (yet), but to the extent that any of it is useful, some of the content can be added to Kurtz's article. I also think a redirect to the ISHV subheader on Kurtz's page is appropriate. --0x0077BE (talk) 01:48, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.