Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Katharine Cooke

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 07:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Katharine Cooke (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Does not appear to meet WP:NACTOR - acted in local plays. Sources are all local, along with primary documents. Melcous (talk) 21:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Women, Theatre, California, and Tennessee. Skynxnex (talk) 21:39, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This is a biography of a female actress and stage manager. She is best known as the daughter of writer Grace MacGowan Cooke and for her leading roles at the Forest Theater in Carmel-by-the-Sea, California. She began her acting career at a young age, securing a role in Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland. Primary and Secondary sources support WP:NP and WP:RS. Please keep this important actress in our encyclopedia! Not sure why the following fact was deleted: "On July 2–3 and 5, 1915, at age 15, Cooke played "Herald" in the play Junípero Serra"? Greg Henderson (talk) 21:40, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. She was a working actress, just not a notable one. She never played on Broadway or in the West End. Most of her career seems to have been at a single outdoor regional theatre. Most, if not all of her credits seem to be for short--running productions; it does not appear that she ever starred in a work with a long run. There is a long section called "works", but they are not her works. Presumably they are works in which she acted. -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:55, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete There is a whole lot of contents about her immediate family members, but contents that can be truly attributed to her shows no indication of satisfying WP:NACTOR or GNG. Simply being associated with someone notable does not receive notability and it is not a reason for notability per WP:INVALIDBIO guidelines. Graywalls (talk) 10:59, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Heavily ref-bombed article on a non-notable actress. This is an example of piecing together an article from bits of 36 different sources, most of which don't mention her at all, a few that have a photo only of her, and a few others have mentions or one sentence about her, or are things like her death certificate or marriage announcement.. Fails WP:SIGCOV. Does not pass our criteria for notable actors/entertainers, fails WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG. She was known in her small community for appearing in local plays, but that's about it. Netherzone (talk) 19:46, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect and merge parts into Grace MacGowan Cooke.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 01:08, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, if we are going to delete, please redirect and I, or someone else, can merge parts into the article: Grace MacGowan Cooke. Greg Henderson (talk) 18:54, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This seems reasonable, to an extent, but in this case, it's pushing it. It's like creating re-direct for Taylor Swift's house, each one of her three cats, her Cadillac Escalade and so forth. Graywalls (talk) 07:32, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, a re-direct would be better than an all out delete. Merging some relevant content seems as well. Greg Henderson (talk) 16:34, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  You missed it. I am saying this article is an example of something that's pushing the limit. Graywalls (talk) 17:55, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Got it. I just meant that it may be a candidate and I would support it. Greg Henderson (talk) 18:05, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to see if there is more support for Merge option just mentioned at the end of the week.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:34, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Her article says "best known for her marriage to Harry Leon Wilson", so shouldn't the redirect target be to him? Clarityfiend (talk) 07:57, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Hi, @Clarityfiend, not sure about that. I don't find that phrase in this article on Katharine Cooke. What I do see is She is best known for being the daughter of writer Grace MacGowan Cooke, and also this; Cooke had an older sister, Helen MacGowan Cooke, who married writer Harry Leon Wilson on June 4, 1912. It seems that her older sister Helen was married to Wilson, not Katherine. Isn't it considered best practices not to define women by their relationships, per WP:NOTBYRELATION? Netherzone (talk) 17:06, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  If we don't keep the article, the merge and redirect should be with her mother Grace MacGowan Cooke. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:23, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oops, must have ended up at her sister's article by mistake. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:49, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Appears to have been a prominent director of the famed Carmel art colony. Well written and well sourced. A newspapers.com search for just her nickname targeted to just California and excluding obituaries returns 25 results. GNG pass. Carrite (talk) 20:40, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment This doesn't show the context. Search result count would include trivial mentions such as appearing in a name list, and event announcements. Which of these sources have significant and independent coverage of this person? Graywalls (talk) 01:08, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment - Agree with @GraywallsGraywalls on this - that "hits" are not the same as SIGCOV. I too saw a lot of "hits" in hyper-local news (in a tiny community) that turned out to be name-checks, two word mentions, articles about other people who just include her name, and photo captions. This is part of a walled garden. Netherzone (talk) 01:18, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Remember - WP:ARTIST played a major role in co-creating a significant collective body of work, e.g. Forest Theater Plays and Katharine Cooke will be Alice in Alice in Wonderland. Greg Henderson (talk) 17:11, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Oh come on! That is micro-significance, as documented in a photo album from the Forest Theater itself; the other link is a photo and photo caption, and a press announcement for the five day run in a tiny town of a few hundred people at the time. That is a grave misunderstand the SNG's criteria. An example of a "significant collective body of work" is Picasso's Blue Period painting series or Sean Connery or Roger Moore playing in many James Bond films. Netherzone (talk) 17:54, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 23:28, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Netherzone, fails GNG. While I'm normally very supportive of AtD's, in this case I don't think merge would be appropriate per Graywalls. At worst, could live with redirect to the 'Early years' section of Grace MacGowan Cooke, but with no mandate to merge. Daniel (talk) 21:12, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.