Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lampungese
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus, which defaults to keep. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Lampungese (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
The ethnic group does not exist according the Indonesian census and the academic publications I've looked at. The only reference cited on this page is a travel book, hardly an authoritative source. The ethnic groups in Lampung according to the last census are in fact Javanese, Sundanese, Peminggir, Pepadun, Malay, Bantenese, Abung Bunga Mayang, Minangkabau, ... Caniago (talk) 13:41, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete, as nominator. (Caniago (talk) 07:15, 8 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
- Keep. Some more sources: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]. Need I go on? Phil Bridger (talk) 15:14, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Just because someone took the word Lampung and added -ese on the end does not automatically mean an ethic group by the name exists. You can similarly add an appendix to the names of most cities (Sydneysider, New Yorker, Melbournite, ...), , but that does not mean we should have an article on these names. You can't do a search of Google, pull out all the books containing a certain word and go ah ha, here's proof. You need to have some understanding of the topic at hand, in this case ethnic groups in Indonesia, and specifically Sumatra. For those of you without knowledge of this topic the Indonesian census, which asks all citizens which ethnic group they belong to, is the clearest and easiest means to see that this ethnic group is not considered to exist. (Caniago (talk) 15:27, 6 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
- Comment. In all of those references the auhors are clearly not using the term "Lampungese" to mean a resident of Lampung - they are using it as a term for an ethnic group which does not include ethnic Javanese residents of Lampung. Governments over the centuries have denied the existence of ethnic groups for their own purposes. Here we have to go by what reliable sources say, not the categories that the Indonesian government uses on its census forms. Phil Bridger (talk) 15:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm afraid thats your interpretation, there is nothing clear about it, nothing to indicate they are using the term in reference to an ethnic group. Here's a direct quote from Google Books ([8]), since you seem so keen to use that tool: "In general, indigenous people of Lampung consist of coastline ethnic groups (Peminggir, including Krui, Ranau Komering and Kayu Agung) and interior ethnic groups (Pepadun, including Suku Abung, Pubian, Manggala/Tulan Bawang and Buay Lima). The common local language is Lampungese and has two dialects, the coastline dialect (Pemingggir) and the interior dialect (Abung)." (Caniago (talk) 15:56, 6 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
- Comment. In all of those references the auhors are clearly not using the term "Lampungese" to mean a resident of Lampung - they are using it as a term for an ethnic group which does not include ethnic Javanese residents of Lampung. Governments over the centuries have denied the existence of ethnic groups for their own purposes. Here we have to go by what reliable sources say, not the categories that the Indonesian government uses on its census forms. Phil Bridger (talk) 15:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Just because someone took the word Lampung and added -ese on the end does not automatically mean an ethic group by the name exists. You can similarly add an appendix to the names of most cities (Sydneysider, New Yorker, Melbournite, ...), , but that does not mean we should have an article on these names. You can't do a search of Google, pull out all the books containing a certain word and go ah ha, here's proof. You need to have some understanding of the topic at hand, in this case ethnic groups in Indonesia, and specifically Sumatra. For those of you without knowledge of this topic the Indonesian census, which asks all citizens which ethnic group they belong to, is the clearest and easiest means to see that this ethnic group is not considered to exist. (Caniago (talk) 15:27, 6 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:33, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.