Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of films set around Easter

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There is no consensus to delete this text. Whether the text should be merged or kept is an editorial one and can be decided outside of AfD. StarM 21:42, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

List of films set around Easter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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The related category is being discussed, and given how that discussion is going, this list needs to be reassessed as well. The problem becomes apparent when the various sub-lists are considered: other than a group of marginally notable horror films punning off the word, there are few—or perhaps none—that are set principally during the Easter holiday season. Even Easter Parade (film) only begins and ends around Easter, presumably as a hook for the Irving Berlin song. Other films maybe allude to the Passion, but then, that's not Easter, and other's I couldn't quickly find even that much of a link for. Meanwhile, I can't see all the biblical epics as "set around Easter" since there cannot have been an Easter holiday until Christians started observing it, not to mention that a lot of them do not include the resurrection. These do form a coherent list (which I presume exists anyway), as do the Easter bunny films, but that leaves us, of the four sublists, with one (the bunnies) which is a specific Easter-related setting, one (the biblical epics) which strictly speaking don't belong here but in their own list, one (the non-genre films) which doesn't appear to have any members that truly belong, and one (the horror movies) which really constitute the only proper membership. To the degree that there's a good reason for lists in the first place, this looks like three separate lists, none of which are this list. Mangoe (talk) 22:11, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:27, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:27, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP. You appear to be arguing about whether or not certain films can be considered "Easter films", but that is not the title of the list. The requirements to be on it are simply that the film occurs on or around Easter. It doesn't matter if the entire film is about Easter because this is not a list of Easter films but rather a list of films set around Easter. If you have a problem with the arrangement of the films within the list, you can categorize the films in any way that you like. Chronological order would also be fine. The reason why a list like this needs to exist is that there is no category for films that occur around Easter. There is only Category:Easter films, which inevitably leads to an argument about whether or not each film could be considered an Easter film merely because it occurred around Easter. The advantage of a list such as this is that it avoids such needless arguments, unless some user doesn't understand the distinction between "List of Easter films" and "List of films set around Easter" and nominates the list for deletion. As for the Biblical films, I never included those when I made the list so you can't blame the list for their inclusion. If you want to improve Wikipedia, you could remove those entries using the argument that you have given. That argument does not apply to the rest of the list, though. --Nicholas0 (talk) 22:37, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand such a distinction because it is irrelevant. Perhaps a clearer name would help, since "around Easter" means to me "in the vicinity of Easter Day", or even "in which events over the Easter holidays play a significant or even central role". I wouldn't understand it to mean "having anything to do with Easter whatsoever", which is too vague a criterion anyway. As far as removing entries, I tend to avoid doing that during a discussion because it has in my experience led to accusations of trying to game the discussion. If you would prefer to be bold, be my guest. Mangoe (talk) 23:59, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:NOTESAL since I am not seeing any list-based sources that discuss this scope at all. Instead, the sources that are available are only tangentially related and not actually set around or during the festival and holiday. For example, they relate to Christian films in general (especially the Resurrection). We need sources to guide us, otherwise what stops us from making List of films set around Arbor Day just because we can find a few films mentioning it, like the main character's child planting a tree for school? Per WP:NOTESAL, "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources." I can't tell from this current draft or the sources that I am finding if the scope of this topic is achievable to have on this encyclopedia. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 00:03, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Ridiculous list of films that have little in common each other, and this is in no way a defining characteristic. As noted, films starring Jesus are not set around Easter, which by definition is a commemoration of the Passion, not the Passion itself. Other than a few of the animated ones, the rest of the list are movies with passing mention to the holiday that don't use it as a major plot point, not even mentioned in several of the articles. Reywas92^Talk 00:21, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge along with List of Easter television specials to form something like Easter in film and television or List of Easter media or something. The problem here is "set around Easter" which is vague and isn't sufficiently treated as a group by reliable sources. There are a bunch of sources for "Easter movies" although definitions are unclear as explained above. The problem with the "television specials" list is that most of the entries are just links to articles about tv shows with the name of a particular episode mentioned (which isn't actually mentioned in those tv series articles). So that one needs to be pruned, and it seems ripe for merging with this one. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 00:51, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge as Rhododendrites suggests, those are good suggestions for a notable and defining commonality that could be forged from what doesn't seem like a notable or coherent collection. - Astrophobe (talk) 01:33, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Rename to List of Easter films. That's the category name already. Category:Easter films The List of Easter television specials is for television specials, not films made for home release, pay per view, movie channels, or the film theaters. Wouldn't all fit together, so best to keep the articles separate. Dream Focus 01:37, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Note I have removed some bad entries from the list, which had nothing to do with Easter just a minor plot point, or the people on Easter holiday for a horror film that showed nothing about Easter at all. Dream Focus 03:03, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am still inclined to split out the bible epics (and Monty Python) into a separate list and "see also" them. There is a list of films based on the bible but most of the Passion/Resurrection ones here are actually based on novels with a biblical setting, and not on biblical texts per se. That done, I could agree to the rename to List of Easter films outcome. Mangoe (talk) 05:10, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am extremely wary of "Easter film" meaning anything concrete. The list-based sources I found had mainly Biblical films or even just rabbit-featuring films like Peter Rabbit on them. I feel like what's left are a handful of dramas and comedies with passing holiday mentions and some films that have the Easter Bunny. I think list of films featuring the Easter Bunny is is more realistic than trying to force a title under the scope of "Easter film". Annie Hall is on an Easter-films list, and its well-developed article doesn't even mention Easter. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 18:17, 23 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Of sufficient interest, with potential for growth. I lean towards renaming to List of Easter films. gidonb (talk) 01:37, 24 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as list of Easter films, only including obvious examples, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 01:05, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and move per Gidonb. I will also trim the list of extraneous or tangential examples. Bearian (talk) 17:24, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge. There's a lot of films 'around Easter', which would mean that even if the article was lengthened, it'd probably never be complete. It could be narrowed to specific topics, like 'Easter Films' or 'Easter Films in (year)', but for now, I don't think it should be kept in it's current form. Bibliopole5795 (talk) 08:46, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Merge to where? Do you mean rename? The article has already been massively purged since the start of this AFD [1] Judge it as it is now. Dream Focus 09:51, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  I meant merge with other articles like List of Easter television specials to create a more comprehensive list on films around Easter. I was agreeing with Rhododendrites's proposal. Bibliopole5795 (talk) 14:31, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  That's for television, and some of these were made for the movie theater or direct to video. Combine them as one article and its far too long. Best to keep it split. Dream Focus 03:17, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Numerous sources have compiled lists of this sort. For example, From ‘Ten Commandments’ to ‘Uncut Gems,’ here are 12 great movies for Passover and Easter. So the topic passes WP:LISTN and the rest is then a matter of ordinary discussion and editing, not deletion. Note that we have many lists of this sort and it would be strange to selectively delete Easter from the list of holidays. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:01, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  There needs to be a distinction between watching Easter films and watching thematic films on Easter. We don't consider all horror films to be Halloween films, for example. That's why a film like The Ten Commandments should not be sloppily listed as such. At the very least, there seems to be a consensus for that, though I am not seeing much of a list criteria clarified above. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 12:48, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Look at it now. Someone had added back in all the non-Easter films I had eliminated previously. I have reverted them. The article is now about films that are about Easter or have Easter as a significant part of them. Dream Focus 14:24, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep or Merge with List of Easter television episodes as Rhododendrites suggested. With the latter choice, instead of having two weak articles on Easter-themed productions, we can have one better, beefier, consolidated article that could be re-titled "List of Easter films and television episodes." Cordially, History DMZ ^{(HQ) † (wire)} 16:26, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Split? It is fairly evident from a quick google that films depicting Easter celebrations don't form their own mini-genre in the way that Christmas and Thanksgiving films do. It is rather telling that Rotten Tomatoes has lists of the best Christmas and Thanksgiving movies but not an equivalent one for Easter. A "list of Easter films" would be an improvement over the current situation but even then Easter films broadly break down into two tropes (biblical epics and those that feature the Easter Bunny), both of which would probably be better off handled separately. The category has already gone in this direction: Category:Films about Easter. Betty Logan (talk) 20:39, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge per Rhododendrites. SK2242 (talk) 15:34, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and don't merge as this is an obviously noteable list subject. I see Dream have addressed the noms concern by triming films that less obviously belong, even ones with strong allusion to the passion like Cool Hand Luke. FeydHuxtable (talk) 17:06, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Cool_Hand_Luke#Christian_imagery I have never seen the film so wasn't aware of that. Right now the list is Easter as in Easter bunny type of Easter. All things related to the religious Jesus Easter is at List of films based on the Bible. I'm not certain if this film would go to either list. Maybe a list for things that had strong imagery of religious things in them, such as Neon Genesis Evangelion. Have to think of more than two things to put on that list though. Dream Focus 17:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  Yup, even Mangoe seems to agree the bunny films belong so hopefully they are happy with your immprovements. Surprised you haven't seen CHL, it's a really good movie. But the Christian parts are not really strong imagery (maybe strongly implicit if that makes sense) so I'd agree it's not obvious if it belongs on either list. FeydHuxtable (talk) 17:32, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per Andrew. The list could use sourcing and expansion, but that's not a reason to delete it. See WP:BEFORE. Swordman97 ^{talk to me} 00:14, 12 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Per Andrew. Shashank5988 (talk) 11:41, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.