Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Morituri te salutant
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Anyone who wants to recreate as a redirect, if they feel strongly, go ahead. Mangojuicetalk 04:12, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This article is only a translation of a Latin phrase. 24fan24 16:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Redirect to Gladiator. Tevildo 16:17, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Redirect per Tevildo. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 16:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. Do not redirect. The phrase is wrong and the translation is wrong. The traditional gladiator salute, which translates as "We who are about to die salute you," is Morituri te salutamus. This sentence would translate as "They who are about to die salute you," an expression I have never heard. Fan-1967 16:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Admittedly not correct Latin, but Google, with 43,500 hits, seems to indicate it's a very common misapprehension. :) Tevildo 17:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- O tempera, o mores. The state of modern education. :-( -- Fan-1967 17:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- One trusts that was deliberate. :) Tevildo 17:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- O tempera, o mores. The state of modern education. :-( -- Fan-1967 17:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Admittedly not correct Latin, but Google, with 43,500 hits, seems to indicate it's a very common misapprehension. :) Tevildo 17:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Do not delete. It is not a traditional gladiator salute. Please read http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/games/qt/morituritesalut.htm. It was supposedly used only once in Roman literature. Gnikhil
- Redirect and keep per Tevildo. Common errors should be corrected, not redlinked. -- nae'blis (talk) 17:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Agree on that one, otherwise it just will be recreated because so many people use it wrongly. There are more misspellings included as redirects on WP. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 17:48, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Interesting, looking around the web, I see both versions attributed to Suetonius, though it looks like a lot of entries were copied from each other. Maybe I'll see if I can track down an actual Latin text somewhere. I find it difficult to believe that Latin speakers would use the third person in referring to themselves. Fan-1967 17:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Not really relevant to the AfD, but the _English_ version I've most commonly seen is "Those who are about to die salute you", (rather than "We...") which would seem to make the third-person version more appropriate. Tevildo 17:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- True, but it doesn't seem to fit the context, of men speaking about themselves. Fan-1967 18:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I was not saying that this version is the correct one, but that we should redirect it anyway, because its used so often, regardless which one is the correct one (although the correct one should be the one used in Gladiator). Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 18:45, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- True, but it doesn't seem to fit the context, of men speaking about themselves. Fan-1967 18:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Not really relevant to the AfD, but the _English_ version I've most commonly seen is "Those who are about to die salute you", (rather than "We...") which would seem to make the third-person version more appropriate. Tevildo 17:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Interesting, looking around the web, I see both versions attributed to Suetonius, though it looks like a lot of entries were copied from each other. Maybe I'll see if I can track down an actual Latin text somewhere. I find it difficult to believe that Latin speakers would use the third person in referring to themselves. Fan-1967 17:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Agree on that one, otherwise it just will be recreated because so many people use it wrongly. There are more misspellings included as redirects on WP. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 17:48, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge into Gladiator. Note that it appears to be correct; there are copies of the original Latin online, and it seems unlikely that anyone would take a full Latin text and replace a famous quotation in it with a popular misquotation, though it should be easy enough to track down a printed copy of the text if anyone is reluctant to trust an online source. This should probably be noted in the relevant section of Gladiator, which currently only gives the apparently incorrect "salutamus" form, regardless of the outcome of this AfD... — Haeleth Talk 22:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The other thing that needs to be corrected on the gladiator page is the fact that this was not a common salute by the gladiators. Gnikhil
- Also exists on the wikiquote page http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Latin_proverbs, only if wikipedia had a better search engine, I wouldnt have even added this article. Its better to use google to search wikipedia. :-) Gnikhil
- Unfortunately, when google returns search results in both versions, no way to tell which is right. However, all the results pretty clearly indicate it's a one-time line, and not a "traditional gladiator salute." Fan-1967 14:55, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Also exists on the wikiquote page http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Latin_proverbs, only if wikipedia had a better search engine, I wouldnt have even added this article. Its better to use google to search wikipedia. :-) Gnikhil
- The other thing that needs to be corrected on the gladiator page is the fact that this was not a common salute by the gladiators. Gnikhil
- Delete Add it to List_of_Latin_phrases and have the Gladiator movie page reference it there. -- MrDolomite | Talk 21:06, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- It has already been added onto that page. But, the unique history of this phrase coupled with the popular misquotation suggests a case for its own page. Maybe, someone in the future can shed light on why this phrase became a misconception. Gnikhil
- Delete, or Merge with no redirect. Wikipedia isn't a language handbook. Nandesuka 13:03, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.