Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Operation Mindfuck

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. MBisanz ^talk 02:27, 3 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Operation Mindfuck[edit]

An seemingly important aspect of a very obscure religion. Practically in-universe stuff, with no outside references to establish notability. Pcap ping 19:36, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. -- Pcap ping 20:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. —Jclemens (talk) 20:37, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I started this article way back when, thanks for notifying me. I don't know yet whether or not Operation Mindfuck should have its own article, but as the nominator pointed out this is a seemingly important aspect, so it should be covered in some fashion (which makes having an AfD odd -- there are other editing measures in addition to the extreme one. But whatever). The "in-universe" argument is weird: the article explicitly states that it's talking about the real world. Focus on the book is an editing matter, if it's a problem. --Kiz o r 20:54, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Extreme over-emphasis on very specific aspect of extremely borderline subject. One article for this group is enough. DGG (talk) 01:57, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep an important real world aspect of Discordianism that is certainly notable enough for a stand alone article. RMHED (talk) 03:09, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge&Redir to Discordianism. Without any Cites, it cant stand as a self supporting Article. If it is such a "important practice in the religion" then let it be mentioned there (which it currently isn't as far as I can see). Exit2DOS2000^•T•C• 08:01, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Operation Mindfuck seems the earliest use of the word Mindfuck. This article is terrible (I shall tell my Discordian friends to get over here and improve it), but the topic itself is important enough to merit an article. YhnMzw (talk) 23:13, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There is a lot of activity going on right now in Operation Mindfuck. This article may not be supplied with up-to-date links, but I believe it deserves its own article. I will do my best to round up some citations. Cramulus (talk) 04:23, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The above two Keep voters haven't made any other contributions anywhere on Wikipedia in years and months, respectively. I suspect some canvassing is going on. Jclemens (talk) 04:26, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am in the process of supplying links which show that Operation Mindfuck is a type of activity still in progress, and not just a fictional activity described in Illuminatus. I still have a few more articles to go, but admittedly my posts need some help with wiki-style. Please advise me, as I'm unfamilliar with wikipedia's internal protocols - should I not be participating because I have not participated in the recent past?Cramulus (talk) 15:50, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per DGG. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 21:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 18:27, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - no independent reliable source to establish notability.--Boffob (talk) 18:36, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. While I'm dubious about some of the "religious" uses, this is a term coined in a noted literary work which in turn was adopted not only by Discordianism, but as noted was the origin of the term "mindfuck" which has been widely referenced. Needs work, no doubt about it, but I feel this is a viable topic. 23skidoo (talk) 20:05, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Notability established by wide usage and discussion of subject in sources.ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:30, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment While there may be a claim to notability, there are no reliable sources that verify such claims to notability. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 02:13, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Operation:Mindfuck is pretty much what Discordians do. At least, some of them. The Activitist bunch of them. Anyway, you all want references, so I'm putting in some effort to dig em out. One problem is, because O:MF are generally covert pranks, designed to "subvert the dominant paradigm" or "fuck with people's minds", attributing the pranks to O:MF afterwards would kind of spoil that effect. Still, there are some references I got from just a simple 5 minute google search (come on people, doesn't Wikipedia have a guideline to "assume good faith" or something?? i spent longer figuring out the proper wiki formatting than finding these references):

"It's hard to nail down Discordians - which figures, since they're dedicated to the sowing of Discord, generally of the mental kind. They don't damage the physical world much in worship of sexy ol' Eris, Goddess of Chaos. Discordians all work, I mean play, in their spare time, on Operation Mindfuck - an insidious yet disorganized attempt to tear down your old mental paradigms without offering anything with which to replace them. Techniques include everything from elaborate pranks, to . . .well, simple pranks. Sort of a Zen version of the Merry Pranksters. -- Reverend Ivan Stang, High Weirdness By Mail (Fireside Books, 1988).

The KLF are famous Discordians and did a lot of big Mindfucks:

"The KLF video Stadium House: The Trilogy is allegedly recorded live at Woodstock Europe, the location of the Illuminati’s attempt to Immanentize the Eschaton — even the stage is in the form of a pyramid. There’s the submarine. Last Train to Transcentral has a “Live from the Lost Continent” mix — one version of the Illuminati story says they were really founded on the Lost Continent of Mu.

On top of everything else, there’s ELF’s Operation Mindfuck (OM), The guiding philosophy is that the only strategy your opponent can’t predict is a random strategy. The KLF’s efforts at OM include playing heavy metal music at a Dutch house rave. Art historians call it Situationalism: using symbols and objects in unusual situations to subvert the established order.

Call it Situationalism, call it Operation Mindfuck, Bill and Jimmy have taken on the music industry in a series of guerilla strikes." from http://stilgherrian.com/personal/the_core_the_klf/ (FYI, the ELF is the Erisian Liberation Front, an Activitist section of Discordianism)

87.208.17.173 (talk) 15:54, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.