Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Regina Mader

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Subject meets criteria generally accepted notability standards for sports persons. (non-admin closure) I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 15:32, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Regina Mader[edit]

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Disputed PROD ; "I see no coverage in WP:GNG or WP:ATHLETE, google shows 5 hits, all passing mentions; can't see how we can have a separate article per WP:BIO, and presumption in favour of privacy." - removed with ES "per Wikipedia:ATHLETE#Notability_guidelines_on_sports_persons" which says, "An athlete is presumed notable if the person has actively participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level such as the Olympics, and has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject (my bold) Chzz ► 21:32, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep firstly, a note on etiquette: if you are going to quote my edit summary, please either quote it in full or indicate that you have only taken a small part of it. When nominating an article for AfD, please also actually read the policies to which you refer, rather than just reading the nutshell, which is from where you grabbed the quote "An athlete is presumed notable if the person has actively participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level such as the Olympics, and has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject". I did not link you to the nutshell, I linked you to:

Wikipedia:ATHLETE#Notability guidelines on sports persons

Which clearly states that:

"Sports figures are presumed notable (except as noted within a specific section) if they:

have participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level such as the Olympics.

meet any of the qualifications in one of the sports specific sections below."

Please note that skiers do not have a specific section. Since Regina Mader participated in the 2010 Olympics in the Ladies' Downhill Ski, as shown by the source (webarchive) provided in the article, she therefore meets the first requirement of the policy regarding notability guidelines on sports persons. She is therefore notable under policy.

It should be noted that nutshells of policies are to give a brief idea of the gist of the policy and should not be relied upon for actual specific application. (e.g. AfD)

Regardless of this, she has received coverage in multiple sources. A google search for her name (in double quotes) returns many hits, some of which are more than passing mentions, such as [1] and [2]. I politely request that the filer, in the interest of the project, makes more of an effort to find sources (and read policy) when filing an AfD, especially if his PROD has already been contested. Saying that a google search only "returned 5 hits" is firstly an invalid deletion argument and secondly an invalid statement.

Spitfire^Tally-ho! 21:59, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for not quoting the entirety of the edit-summary; I thought that the link would suffice. What I am quoting is, the "nutshell" of the SNG, which states, "An athlete is presumed notable if the person has actively participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level such as the Olympics, and has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." (again, my bold) and GNG, Wikipedia articles cover notable topics—those that have gained sufficiently significant attention by the world at large and over a period of time, and are not excluded for other reasons. We consider evidence from reliable independent sources such as published journals, books, and newspapers to gauge this attention. Notability does not directly affect the content of articles, but only whether the topic should have its own article. - sorry, I did truncate that, the full guideline is of course WP:GNG. - Hope that helps clarify. Chzz ► 22:13, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I know you only quoted from the nutshell; I addressed this in my comment above, which I invite you to read. As I said above, the nutshell aims to merely give a brief idea of the gist of the policy and should not be relied upon for actual specific application. For application you should instead actually refer to the text of the policy, which makes it clear that sports figures are presumed notable if they have participated in the Olympics, as demonstrated by the link I gave you: Wikipedia:ATHLETE#Notability guidelines on sports persons and as demonstrated in my comment above. Furthermore, quoting policy without explaining its relevance does not support your argument: for instance, you quote the GNG, however, proving that something does not meet the GNG (which you haven't proved) does not prove that the topic is not notable: it may still be considered notable under other topic-specific polices such as WP:ATHLETE. Please try to actually address the points I am making, rather than just wildly quoting irrelevant policies without providing any reasoning. Best wishes, Spitfire^Tally-ho! 22:30, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:34, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Participation in the Olympics is sufficient, as much so as playing in one Major League Baseball inning. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:56, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Olympians are always notable per consensus. A downhill skiing competitor - who will usually have spent years competing in national and international competitions beforehand in order to qualify - is more likely to be truly notable than some guy who played one inning of major league ball. --NellieBly (talk) 23:17, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Could you please explain that in terms of WP:ATHLETE? Thanks. Chzz ► 01:21, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ATHLETE#Generally acceptable standards. Look at all the bluelinked Swedes who finished out of the medals in the Tug of war at the 1908 Summer Olympics! Clarityfiend (talk) 01:40, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - As having competed at the highest level of her sport with participation in the Olympics, FIS World Championships, and about 60 races on the World Cup circuit. And as for coverage, [3], [4], [5] are some examples. -- Whpq (talk) 16:17, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Aha, thanks for finding those. Google news-search often fails to show articles in other languages, unfortunately. I cannot speak the language, so can someone confirm if they're reliable sources? If they are, I'll happily withdraw this request; my concern was the lack of apparent coverage. (Of course, it would be even better if the sources could be added to the article) Chzz ► 17:18, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Olympic skier with 26 ISF Top 3 finishes from 2003 to 2011. Ref added to article at nom's request. The Steve 02:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.